Rangerland Forum Information

[Mike B.]

As suggested by Rocha. My father is a psychotic jazz aficionado, and to this day one of the worst things you can do if you need to be somewhere anytime in the next day is casually mention to him that you heard a jazz song that you liked once. As he once said to me, he would do his best to expose me to so much of it that it would "be coming out of my ears" by the time I was 16.

If I had to pick a sub-genre or two that I liked the most, I'd say Coltrane, of course, who is in a category of his own. Followed closely by the hard boppers like Art Blakey and his progeny (Lee Morgan, Horace Silver, etc.), and Dexter Gordon. Other phases I've gone through have included Jobim, the late-era (1950s) swing from Basie et al., classic Louis Armstrong.

My current obsession, however, is Thelonius Monk, specifically the Riverside recordings from the early 1950s. Just him and an assortment of drum and bass players. When Max Roach passed away a few months ago, they played some of these tracks, and they've just been burned in my head since. Some of his stuff is a little difficult to listen to, but he takes these nice melodies and rips them up into a bunch of staccato rhythms and wild chord structures and dissonances.

I wanted to post the two tracks that I just keep playing over and over, but I can't get that boomp3 site to work on my machine. I'll try again from work tomorrow.

[Rocha]

Jazz is the best. People get scared away from jazz for bad reasons -- like you need some deep understanding or professional music knowledge to get it. Nah. Works the same as any other music, you either like the melody of the song or you don't.

I generally prefer avant-garde and free jazz, but I like most of it. Almost everything except the old, pre-Bebop shit and vocal jazz. Ech. I'll give Youtube examples of lots of styles and people in following posts....

[Puckforbrains]

I have been trying for years to break into the jazz music , I get bored easily with the same shit and I really like to mix up my listening. I do go through phases of some albums that last while. I purchased Coltrane's Blue Train a few years back- some of it I can dig , some of it bores me to tears...I am not 'getting' it yet...I want to...anything else you can recommend or another jazz musician that I can cut my teeth on?

[Reggie Dunlop]

I took a Jazz & Literature class my senior year of college mainly because the professor was an ex-hippy beatnik type who didn't believe in grades so she gave everyone A's as long as you showed and bought the books. She was sort of a poor man's version of Thornton Melon's English teacher, but she was cool as shit. She would drink wine during class and basically just play jazz records to the class. The one book that stood out the most was by Charles Mingus. A pretty interesting (ie. fucked up) life he led and some really good music. I like the sax the best so Coltrane and Bird Parker were what I enjoyed the most. I don't listen to as much as I probably should now.

[Rocha]

Bebop

Thelonious Monk - Blue Monk
Thelonious is the first jazz artist I really liked. His piano playing is absolutely fascinating, unlike anyone else's in the world's. And really, even his melodies are completely unique in all of music, they have this stumbling pace and out of key sound like he's hitting wrong notes, but he isn't. He's just reinventing the piano.




John Coltrane - Afro Blue
This doesn't have much Coltrane until about half way through, up front is a lot of McCoy Tyner on piano, who's my second favorite pianist behind Thelonious Monk. A beautiful song, it sounds both modern and old timey at the same time.




Miles Davis - So What
I like Miles a lot, but he has so many albums and so many different styles you never know what you're getting. And I'm not the biggest fan of the trumpet, either. Here's one of his be bop classics, with a young John Coltrane on sax.




Charles Mingus - Fables of Faubus
Mingus is interesting for sure. He can either be pretty swinging bebop of way the fuck out avant-garde. This is a bebop tune and one of my top-5 jazz songs of all time. It's just got the coolest fuckin' riff ever.




Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Serenade to a Cuckoo
Kirk was blind, yet had a great sense of humor (notice him playing that little flute like thing with his nose at the beginning). This is just an awesome flute riff, you'll have it stuck in your head all day.




Sonny Rollins - St. Thomas
I'm not the biggest Sonny Rollins fan (though I do like him) and this song is kinda corny, but this is a neat version of it with great drumming.

[Rocha]

Avant garde/free jazz

Eric Dolphy - Hat & Beard
Dolphy was the second jazz artist I really liked. His music is so odd and abstract, but still listenable. Here's one of my Dolphy favorites set to an old Felix the Cat cartoon. It fits well!





John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
My favorite Coltrane song. This is only part one.




Albert Ayler - New Grass
Albert's one of my favorites. Again, really unique. A lot of his sax lines sound like they're from old marching and Salvation Army bands. This tune is really soulful. I don't think anyone put more emotion into the saxophone than him.




Ornette Coleman - Ramblin'
He pretty much invented free jazz, or was one of the first anyway, but this song isn't as far out as a lot of his stuff. Still one of his best, though.




Sun Ra - Outer Spaceways Inc.
I definitely couldn't tell you much about the most colorful artist in jazz in a sentence or two. Look up his Wikipedia instead. To put it briefly, he claimed he came from Saturn and most of his music was about interstellar space shit. I think he's the best, people with no sense of humor or adventure think he's too much.




Alice Coltrane - Journey In Satchidananda
John Coltrane's wife, who formed her own very interesting career after he died. I love the cosmic hippy shit. You may not.




Pharoah Sanders - Prince of Peace
Sanders used a lot of African rhythms and instruments in his music. Not so much this tune, but it's a very soulful track that expresses the peaceful nature that was behind a lot of 60s and 70s jazz.

[Rocha]

Tomorrow or over the weekend I'll do Cool Jazz and Fusion.

[ideserveabeer]

I don't know anything about jazz but I am going to JazzFest in New Orleans in a couple of weeks. I am going there for a bachelor party but that's going on at the same time.

[Mike B.]

Here are those two Monk clips I was talking about. Both are about 2:30-3:00.

These Foolish Things (originally written for some hokey 1930s musical or movie, as is the case with many of the jazz standards):

boomp3.com

Reflections (a Monk original):

boomp3.com

As Rocha said, sounds to some like he might be hitting the wrong notes, but he's really just reinventing what sounds and chord combinations are listenable. One of the many wild characters in jazz - one of the great things about being a fan, actually. There are really just so many insanely creative and original people to read up on and listen to.

[Kusand]

I don't listen to a lot of jazz but I can generally listen to Move to the Groove all day (and frequently throw it on while I hang out around the apartment). Metheny, Brubeck, and King in one live album. A real nice listen.

[Mike B.]

Almost everything except the old, pre-Bebop shit and vocal jazz.

Really? No love for classic Louis? The recording of "West End Blues" he made in the late 20s is pretty much regarded by most critics, and me as well, as one of the best in the entire genre. You don't like any of the old Basie or Ellington? I'll have to dig up some of the quintet recordings I have from the late 40s and 50s with Basie, Lester Young, Freddie Green, Buck Clayton, Roy Eldrige, et al., and see if I can persuade you.

I have to admit that my tastes in jazz pretty much stop at Ornette Coleman. I think he took what Coltrane was doing, and broke it down even further, completely messed with all of the foundation assumptions about the music - melodies, chords, rhythms, time signatures. The problem for me is that once you do that, where can you go from there? Everything that comes after him, to me, seems like some sort of hybrid - like fusion, for example, which I could just never get into. Maybe you'll encourage me to give it another go.

That "Afro Blue" clip from the classic Coltrane Quartet is from a series called Jazz Casuals, which are all highly, highly recommended viewing. The host, Ralph Gleason, is, as my father used to say, one of the reasons why black people hate white people. But he put together some great shows.

Re: Sonny, I agree that St. Thomas is kind of hokey - it's kind of his "Birdland." He was a wild dude, though, and anybody who was recording with Monk by his 20th birthday had to have something original going on. Have you heard any of his Blue Note stuff from the 50s? I especially like the Night at the Vanguard recording from 1957, with the great Elvin Jones on drums. One of the first to have a horn, drums, and bass with no piano, a style which he really originated. And he still rocks it, I just saw him about 3 or 4 years ago at Lincoln Center.

I have been trying for years to break into the jazz music , I get bored easily with the same shit and I really like to mix up my listening. I do go through phases of some albums that last while. I purchased Coltrane's Blue Train a few years back- some of it I can dig , some of it bores me to tears...I am not 'getting' it yet...I want to...anything else you can recommend or another jazz musician that I can cut my teeth on?

That's interesting, Blue Train is the CD I usually recommend to people when they're trying to get into Coltrane. It's a great recording, and is an easier listen than most of his other material. Maybe you can try some of the more melodic stuff - like Dave Brubeck, maybe? Here's a quite different take on "These Foolish Things":



Maybe some of the big band material:



I made some recommendations to RedHerring a while back, maybe he can chime in and offer his thoughts.

[Dunc]

McCoy Tyner is truly oustanding. Accessible, melodic jazz.

[Puckforbrains]

I am diggin the Ornette Coleman track...I think I lean towards the stuff that hasunusual time signatures and is beat - off key musically..I dig the Thelonious also...maybe I can dive into that some more...to be perfectly honest , thats one of my favorite things about prog-rock also...Yes, Rush , and King Crimson , Tool to an extent and even in the here and now with The Mars Volta (fusion of jazz, funk, punk, Latin music, and noise). But the common thread to me is the willingness to experiment and push the music to almost an uncomfortable point where it completely freaks you out and you say to yourself " How the hell did he just do that?" but at the same time it sounds wonderful while blowing your mind.

[HDSQuaver]

Jazz is the best. People get scared away from jazz for bad reasons -- like you need some deep understanding or professional music knowledge to get it. Nah. Works the same as any other music, you either like the melody of the song or you don't.

I generally prefer avant-garde and free jazz, but I like most of it. Almost everything except the old, pre-Bebop shit and vocal jazz. Ech. I'll give Youtube examples of lots of styles and people in following posts....

Getting people to understand and/or appreciate jazz can be a tough process. It's even rougher when you do it for a living. It's bizarre when a large percentage of the world doesn't understand what you do and frankly doesn't care either. Still it's fun to keep the art alive. Often the best introduction I've found is to start more modern and work your way back. Brad Mehldau was really useful in that regard in the late nineties and very early oughts with his usage of popular music and his modern but still consonant sound. Unfortunately in the past five to six years he's become more known and I've become less a fan of his work. Still, it's worth checking out.

Here's Mehldau doing a Radiohead cover:



The Way You Look Tonight:



Gonzalo Rubalcaba is an unbelievable modern jazz pianist. If you can handle listening to Ron Carter on bass, here's a video of them playing what sounds a hell of a lot like "What is This Thing Called Love"



Since we're on the contemporary pianist bump, other great players to check out are Bill Charlap (classic sounds, nice suits, slightly annoying personality), Mulgrew Miller (living legend), of course Herbie and Chick, the entire Bill Evans catalog but particularly the four records with Scott LaFaro on Bass, and of course Keith Jarrett (despite the legions of white people following him around).

There's tons more to talk about but that should be a good start. And if anyone's interested in about 120 gigs worth of jazz mp3s (160 GB total collection) let me know.

HDS

[Sed]

a large percentage of the world doesn't understand what you do and frankly doesn't care either.

As an academic, I can totally relate to this statement.

[leedsy99]

I think a lot of those negro jazz men smoke reefer.

[teddyc]

I think a lot of those negro jazz men smoke reefer.

And they also ... and ... uh....I forgot.
Mingus does rule though.....Ah Um.

[Mike B.]

I think a lot of those negro jazz men smoke reefer.

Dreamed about a reefer five feet long
Not too fat and not too strong
You get high, but not for long
If you's a viper

Now I'm the king of everything
Gotta get high 'fore I can swing
Light up a lil' tea, and let it be,
If you's a viper

When your throat gets dry, you know you're high
Everything is dandy
Truck on down to the candy store, and
Bust your conk on peppermint candy

Now you know that you been sent
You don't give a damn if you don't pay rent
The sky is high and so am I
If you's a viper

[leedsy99]

Either way, I fail to see what this thread has to do with Thin Lizzy.



Sorry. I'm ruining the jazz thread. Carry on, hep cats.

[Rocha]

Tonnnnnight it's gonna be a jail break...! I love Thin Lizzy.

Brian is scared of black people.

[Denis Lemieux]

Yeah. Ol' Leedsy is Blacktose Intolerant.

[RedHerring]

I made some recommendations to RedHerring a while back, maybe he can chime in and offer his thoughts.

Ok so I've finally gotten around to commenting about this.

I haven't really deterred from the Brubeck/Mulligan/Desmond I found before. I'm not really into that bossanova Jobim stuff. However, this search was limited to mellow background music. Next time I'm in the mood I'll do a Pandora and report back.

I'm big fan Miles Davis, Dizzy Gillespie and Louis Armstrong (can you detect a trend here?). Also, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy is fun to listen to once and awhile. I like swing a lot.


As for what HDS and Rocha are talking about... I disagree. I played the trumpet for 7 years - concert band, jazz band, marching band - and the only reason I'm in to jazz and classical is because I have such a huge respect and understanding about the musicians behind the music. Kind of like if you've ever tried to hit an 80MPH curveball - you suddenly have a newfound respect for those who can hit them 400 feet. It's basically the same thing, and with the drop in kids in music programs, jazz and classical are still going to remain a niche. It's unfortunate, but it's understandable. It takes a refined ear and knowledge to know to really appreciate the music and kids these days don't have the patience to deal with it. How many 17 year olds can tell you what a good wine is? Or a good cigar? Scotch? It's the same thing. Older people can appreciate it, the younger ones can't unless they play an instrument.

[LeNea]

Well, a 17 year old can legally buy CDs, but can't legally buy wine, Scotch, or cigars. Just sayin'.

Exposure is the key for classical enjoyment. I never spent much time listening to classical, then I went to grad school and through church, a lot of my friends are actually in/alumni of the School of Music. You know, opera singers, french horn players, trombonists, harpists, etc. I spend a lot of time listening to classical these days, especially at their recitals. It's growing on me but I just don't get it like the more practiced ear. Someday.

This post has been edited by LeNea: Apr 12 2008, 08:27 PM

[Mike B.]

I haven't really deterred from the Brubeck/Mulligan/Desmond I found before.

Brubeck is great. I'm listening to Vin Scelsa right now, and he just dropped "Take Five" into the middle of a set with some old R&B, some Latin thing, and a gospel song. As overplayed as that song is, when you don't hear it for a while, you realize what a great rhythm it is. I always really dug the bass line on it too. I can't say that Brubeck and Desmond were the first to mess around with non-traditional time signatures - the 5.4 of "Take Five," the 9/8 of "Blue Rondo a la Turk" - but it was definitely original.

Take Five:



Blue Rondo:

[RedHerring]

I don't think there's anything more awesome than old white guys in suits playing the drums. Hello Max Weinberg! So cool.

[HDSQuaver]

I don't think there's anything more awesome than old white guys in suits playing the drums. Hello Max Weinberg! So cool.

Sure there is...



another old drummer (Roy Haynes) in a majorly unbuttoned shirt playing his ass of at age 79 (in 2005). For me, one of the greatest joys is to be able to see one of the greatest and most influential drummers of all time, still out there touring the world. His bands are young, play great, and despite outlasting nearly his entire generation, supposedly he still has a pretty fun coke habit. Interestingly enough, his grandson Marcus Gilmore is one of the best young drummers on the scene, playing with everyone from Nick Payton to Chick Corea.

So let's throw this one out there. Who's got something nice to say about Ray Brown? Screw that, who's got a paragraph for probably the only bass player to universally be called "jazz legend" as a prefix to his name (Jazz Legend Ray Brown)?

Here's him trading off with Niels Henning Orsted Pedersen playing duo with Oscar Peterson:



N.H.O.P. has him on chops, but Ray's got him on pocket any day.

That's enough for now.

HDS

[Mike B.]

For me, one of the greatest joys is to be able to see one of the greatest and most influential drummers of all time, still out there touring the world.

Agreed. It's amazing how vital this music keeps people. I remember seeing Roy Eldrige sometime in the late 80s after his stroke, and it didn't look like he could make it to the stage, let alone perform. But once he got a hold of the microphone...then, there are the guys like Haynes who still look great. I saw Randy Weston in New Orleans a few years back. He's 78, I think, but he's about 6' 8", and I sure wouldn't want to piss him off.

So let's throw this one out there. Who's got something nice to say about Ray Brown?

Ray Brown is one of those guys that are ubiquitous and have been involved in almost every major sub-genre of the music because of their abilities to adapt to so many different styles. Like Max Roach. Just incredible careers.

Anyway, here's my latest obsession - Jobim and Elis Regina, "Aquas de Marco (Waters of March)":



This post has been edited by Mike B.: Apr 16 2008, 11:25 AM

[Mike B.]

Man, Rocha - have you listened to Monk's Trio recordings from the early 1950s?

http://www.fusion3.com/works/DRCD_11287/

I forgot this was in my CD player, what a great surprise. Highly, highly recommended for any Monk fans. I incorrectly cited these as being from the Riverside sessions earlier in this thread. I'll have to read about this when I'm more sober, but apparently the RIverside Sessions are from later, after 1954, when the shitheel NYC cops stole his cabaret license because he refused to rat out Bud Powell on a narcotics charge. There's a huge 15 CD box set from those recordings, I may need to pick those up.

[Das Hans]

The great Austrian pianist Hans Groiner plays Thelonious Monk:

[Mike B.]

Man, Rocha - have you listened to Monk's Trio recordings from the early 1950s?

http://www.fusion3.com/works/DRCD_11287/

I forgot this was in my CD player, what a great surprise. Highly, highly recommended for any Monk fans. I incorrectly cited these as being from the Riverside sessions earlier in this thread. I'll have to read about this when I'm more sober, but apparently the RIverside Sessions are from later, after 1954, when the shitheel NYC cops stole his cabaret license because he refused to rat out Bud Powell on a narcotics charge. There's a huge 15 CD box set from those recordings, I may need to pick those up.

I was just walking around my office, thinking how utterly fucking dull my days always are, and then remembering that I had some music saved on my work machine. Why don't I ever play it during the day? No reason!

So Monk it is, the CD I linked to above. And the day is instantly brighter.

[Das Hans]

I was just walking around my office, thinking how utterly fucking dull my days always are, and then remembering that I had some music saved on my work machine. Why don't I ever play it during the day? No reason!

So Monk it is, the CD I linked to above. And the day is instantly brighter.

Nice to see some other Ranger fans into jazz.

Playing and teaching jazz is what I do for a living. If anyone here cares to check out my music, you can listen to my latest album here:

http://www.keepitcute.com/music.html

[Andy from the LE...]

Tonnnnnight it's gonna be a jail break...! I love Thin Lizzy.

Brian is scared of black people.

Wasn't Phil Lynott black?

[Andy from the LE...]

Nice to see some other Ranger fans into jazz.

Playing and teaching jazz is what I do for a living. If anyone here cares to check out my music, you can listen to my latest album here:

http://www.keepitcute.com/music.html

Good stuff Hans.

Alright, I gotta admit: while I know about the II-V-I, major 6 chords, dominant chords, modes, the tritone substitution, and whatnot, I don't know too much actually about Jazz itself outside those conventions.

Where should I start?

[Das Hans]

Good stuff Hans.

Alright, I gotta admit: while I know about the II-V-I, major 6 chords, dominant chords, modes, the tritone substitution, and whatnot, I don't know too much actually about Jazz itself outside those conventions.

Where should I start?

That's a pretty good start right there! For a musician, 90% of learning about jazz is listening and trying to figure stuff our for yourself. Theory is a good tool (hey, I teach jazz theory courses, amongst other things), but when it comes right down to it, theory is just a way of talking about sounds. Unless you're really familiar with those sounds, the theory doesn't do much good. It's like learning a language: you can learn a ton about grammar and conjugating verbs and stuff from textbooks, but to really understand and speak the language, you have to listen to native speakers speak it and then try to jump in and join the conversation. As you make progress with that, all the stuff from the textbooks will make a lot more sense.

[Andy from the LE...]

That's a pretty good start right there! For a musician, 90% of learning about jazz is listening and trying to figure stuff our for yourself. Theory is a good tool (hey, I teach jazz theory courses, amongst other things), but when it comes right down to it, theory is just a way of talking about sounds. Unless you're really familiar with those sounds, the theory doesn't do much good. It's like learning a language: you can learn a ton about grammar and conjugating verbs and stuff from textbooks, but to really understand and speak the language, you have to listen to native speakers speak it and then try to jump in and join the conversation. As you make progress with that, all the stuff from the textbooks will make a lot more sense.

Heh! Thanks. My old guitar teacher is a local cat who plays all over NYC; he's a major jazz guy, and he would always impart the importance of these things on this ungrateful metal/punk twerp.

Plus, I'm a huge Andy Summers fan, who basically slummed the pop/rock world when he was in the Police; his roots were actually in Jazz, and I picked up a LOT from his old instructional video (which he seemed to have filmed under the influence of *cough* a few glasses of wine).

Anyhow, what I meant was more along the lines of what records/people I should listen to.

[Puckforbrains]

Anyhow, what I meant was more along the lines of what records/people I should listen to.

You could download the Ken Burns Jazz Series and listen to a little bit of everything until you get a feel for what you like. I found I like Dave Brubeck and Charle Mingus this way..

[Mike B.]

Been a while:

[Pymonte]

Just been getting into jazz over the last few months or so, but so far these two are my favorites.

Esbjorn Svensson Trio



The Bad Plus



Anyone have any recommendations based on these two? I like free-flowing melodic stuff like this.

[Mike B.]

Went to the Village Vanguard for the first time in about a decade tonight. Saw this pretty awesome guitar player, Adam Rogers. Not too many good clips of him out there, but here's one:



That venue hasn't changed a bit since my dad started taking me there 20-25 years ago. Still only about 100-125 people, same stage, same narrow stairwell downstairs, same crowded and tiny tables, same great sound. So cool that I can still go hear music in the place where some of my favorite all-time jazz albums were recorded.

[Mike B.]

My father is still relentless with his jazz evangelism, at age 75. He sends me e-mails at least once a week with artists he wants me to look up, and can't believe it when I tell him that I didn't get the chance. Sometimes it's annoying, but for the most part I greatly appreciate that I was raised by two people who taught me to be passionate about music.

Anyway here was today's. Chills on the opening riff.

[Mike B.]

Coltrane and Monk are my two favorite jazz musicians for sure, but Dexter Gordon is way up there.



He just had such a powerful sound, metallic like Trane's, which makes for a really interesting contrast when he's playing a ballad like this. I love how he stretches out on these songs.

[Paul Smachetti]

Can anyone tell me the name of the piece they're using in this commercial?



This post has been edited by Paul Smachetti: Nov 11 2012, 12:49 PM

[Sed]

Can anyone tell me the name of the piece they're using in this commercial?

According to Shazam - Cookin'Box by Detroit Jackson.

This post has been edited by Sed: Nov 11 2012, 01:20 PM

[Paul Smachetti]

According to Shazam - Cookin'Box by Detroit Jackson.

I'm not a big Jazz fan but I really like this.

[Mike B.]

Art Tatum's style can be tough sometimes, because he chops up the melodies so much, but this is just great.