Rangerland Forum Information

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/20090903/pl_...s/ynews_pl888_1

I really...I don't even know what to say at this point.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

Wait... what are you against? The Speech itself, or the parents banning it?

[gkrangers]

NBC spoke with Katie Gordon, a spokeswoman for the Florida Republican Party, who said the party's "beef" is with the accompanying lesson plans. The guide for pre-K through grade 6 suggests questions students think about during the speech, such as "What is the President trying to tell me? What is the President asking me to do?"

The plan for grades 7-12 includes a "guided discussion," with suggested topics: "What resonated with you from President Obama's speech? What is President Obama inspiring you to do?"

The Cato Institute, a public-policy research foundation, issued a press release entitled "Hey Obama, Leave Those Kids Alone," criticizing the "troubling buzzwords" in the lesson plans:

Those are troubling buzzwords?

[Hockey101]

It's one thing to speak about drugs and the such, but to involve kids into what could make this country better with politics is flat out stupid.

There are more important things to do right now than talking to kids this way.

[gkrangers]

It's one thing to speak about drugs and the such, but to involve kids into what could make this country better with politics is flat out stupid.

There are more important things to do right now than talking to kids this way.

What way?

[gkrangers]

WAIT.

I'VE GOT IT.

HE WANTS TO GIVE RISE TO HIS OWN HITLER YOUTH!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[toph]

WAIT.

I'VE GOT IT.

HE WANTS TO GIVE RISE TO HIS OWN HITLER YOUTH!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Who may, or may not, be referred to as skinheads, depending on your point of view.

[Hockey101]

What way?

About the direction of this country where he, like any other politician no matter which side, would like to hear a kid say to support his/her agenda.

Leave kids out of politics. I think spending time trying to help the housing market is more important.

[Hockey101]

Who may, or may not, be referred to as skinheads, depending on your point of view.

I tried seeing from your point of view, but your head was too far up your ass.

[gkrangers]

About the direction of this country where he, like any other politician no matter which side, would like to hear a kid say to support his/her agenda.

Leave kids out of politics. I think spending time trying to help the housing market is more important.

I was under the impression the speech was about education, and goals, and not about his political agenda.

[Hockey101]

Well, we'll see what happens as kids will "get to ask" questions. Unfortunately education is too influenced by politics.

[Puckforbrains]

Once again , some wingnuts fly off the handle and over react. Not surprising it comes from Jim Greer

[gkrangers]

Well, we'll see what happens as kids will "get to ask" questions. Unfortunately education is too influenced by politics.

I bet the White House plants liberal fourth graders to "ask" questions about health care reform and the economy.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

About the direction of this country where he, like any other politician no matter which side, would like to hear a kid say to support his/her agenda.

Leave kids out of politics. I think spending time trying to help the housing market is more important.

I always thought it was good to educate things about they would be doing in the future even at a young age... I got into politics when I was 9. I turned out ok.....

Also, its not mandatory either. Its not like Obama is say "WATCH OR DIE YOU LITTLE CHILDREN THAT I WILL CONVERT INTO MY MINOINS"

Its a speech about education....

[leetchie69]

I bet the White House plants liberal fourth graders to "ask" questions about health care reform and the economy.

[gkrangers]

www.foxnews.com

Priceless.

[xcheck24]

Wait, the president is going to speak to students and this is a bad thing?

[Sed]

Wait, the president is going to speak to students and this is a bad thing?

It's always a bad thing. Kids are very impressionable - hell, after Reagan's Brandenburg Gate speech I tore down every wall within a half-mile radius of my house; Bush senior's words led to my mastery of lip-reading. After Clinton's speech, I went on a rampage of not-having-sex-with Monica Lewinsky.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Wait... what are you against? The Speech itself, or the parents banning it?

the republican and parent uprising

[xcdudesquadloves...]

the republican and parent uprising

Ok phew.

[Hockey101]

I bet the White House plants liberal fourth graders to "ask" questions about health care reform and the economy.

A kid who was the daughter of an Obama campaign office coincidently attended one of Obama's town halls and asked a question. Don't say stupid things such as liberal fourth graders. I think my opinion of this is fair enough that kids shouldn't be part of political atmosphere for obvious public image, regardless what party does it and where in the world it may be.

[Hockey101]

Wait, the president is going to speak to students and this is a bad thing?

Kids. You make it sound as if he is speaking to knowledgeable, educated students. Let's see what he will speak about and these questions that kids will ask him. Anything political and it is a bad thing.

[Nilan 666]

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?

Seriously though these people would probably bitch sooner or later that he didn't talk to the kids.

[Hockey101]

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?

Seriously though these people would probably bitch sooner or later that he didn't talk to the kids.

They shouldn't. I think Obama talking to kids for say...promoting reading books, or to study hard, that's fine. I just don't think he, or anyone for that matter, should address kids about issues that are serious, and i don't think now is the time to talk to kids either. I know Obey is fixated on this healthcare thing, but last time i checked this country's unemployment rate is still high, housing market still sucks, and we need to jump start our economy to where it was at. I said "thank God the market is up on 9,000" to our family friend who is a stock broker, and he said "sure, but it's still not good." He is right. We need it to go up further to feel safer.

I mean, intentional or not, with his approval ratings dipping and the country becoming more divided then i ever imagined with him elected, trying to look like a nice guy with kids is quite a PR move trying to help himself. It gives that impression....and to me it's bad timing. I would have advised him, if i had to, to do it around Christmas time where we will hopefully see improvements in our economy and things look a bit brighter.

[LisaLisa]

Seriously though these people would probably bitch sooner or later that he didn't talk to the kids.

This is the truth of it. The Republican party should be called the Reactionary party now. No matter what he (Obama) does, they'll criticize it to death. He could open up a special wing of the White House devoted to the care of orphaned puppies, kittens and babies, and the Reactionaries will still rage about it.

"You see? He's opened the White House to lazy freeloaders living off taxpayers dollars! COMMIE-SOCIALIST PINKO!"

They hate him. They hate the fact that he's President. There's no good deed he can do, no reasoned rational ideas he can give, that will alter their paranoid rage.

[Ebase]

This is the truth of it. The Republican party should be called the Reactionary party now. No matter what he (Obama) does, they'll criticize it to death. He could open up a special wing of the White House devoted to the care of orphaned puppies, kittens and babies, and the Reactionaries will still rage about it.

"You see? He's opened the White House to lazy freeloaders living off taxpayers dollars! COMMIE-SOCIALIST PINKO!"

They hate him. They hate the fact that he's President. There's no good deed he can do, no reasoned rational ideas he can give, that will alter their paranoid rage.

It really bothers me how the hostility levels of the US populace have become so inflated by the media.

There is so much of a lack of intellectual honesty about so much of this debate.

Obama is our President. And while I do not agree with many of his policies he is still my President. And as such, I still have a respect for the office.

I felt that way about Bush. He did many things poorly and I wanted him out of the White House but he was still my President. When you filter out much of the politics Obama like Bush is a man who wants what he thinks is best for the country

I just think that the volume of the debates need to become more intellectual. Taking bytes from Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow is just stupid.

These town-hall bitching sessions are deplorable.

[Alitaki]

I think we as a nation have officially passed the point of no return when it comes to partisanship. Everything is now "left" or "right" and everything the otherwise does is attacked. We democrats are no better than the republicans in this.

This just seals it. The president is going to make a back to school speech to all of the nations school children. Do people really think he's going to push his healthcare agenda during this particular speech? Really? Are we that childish to assume that a pretty smart guy is going to do something that stupid? If he does then he deserves to be blasted for it and I'll do some of the blasting but I some how doubt the speech will be about anything other than the importance of education and how important it is to everyone's future - a message that has fallen by the wayside these last 15 years or so.

I think we've crossed a line and it's going to be very unlikely that we'll be able to get back to serious discussions and debates. I give us another 10-15 years before it all goes to shit.

[gkrangers]

I think we as a nation have officially passed the point of no return when it comes to partisanship. Everything is now "left" or "right" and everything the otherwise does is attacked. We democrats are no better than the republicans in this.

This just seals it. The president is going to make a back to school speech to all of the nations school children. Do people really think he's going to push his healthcare agenda during this particular speech? Really? Are we that childish to assume that a pretty smart guy is going to do something that stupid? If he does then he deserves to be blasted for it and I'll do some of the blasting but I some how doubt the speech will be about anything other than the importance of education and how important it is to everyone's future - a message that has fallen by the wayside these last 15 years or so.

I think we've crossed a line and it's going to be very unlikely that we'll be able to get back to serious discussions and debates. I give us another 10-15 years before it all goes to shit.

Bout time for a good old fashioned civil war.

[Beamer]

This is the truth of it. The Republican party should be called the Reactionary party now. No matter what he (Obama) does, they'll criticize it to death. He could open up a special wing of the White House devoted to the care of orphaned puppies, kittens and babies, and the Reactionaries will still rage about it.

"You see? He's opened the White House to lazy freeloaders living off taxpayers dollars! COMMIE-SOCIALIST PINKO!"

They hate him. They hate the fact that he's President. There's no good deed he can do, no reasoned rational ideas he can give, that will alter their paranoid rage.

In fairness, "they learned it from watching you."

They learned it from the Democrats during the last administration. I post on a few vinyl trading hardcore websites. Any time anyone says anything slightly libertarian or conservative they get called a "Neocon" about 4000 times from people that don't understand the term. Just like today with all the stupid pinko talk.

It's pointless to blame either side.
It's good to blame the media, blame idiots getting involved in politics like sports and clinging to sides without even bothering to understand the issues or other perspective, and just American stupidity as a whole.

I fucking hate politics in this country these days. No one that is very into politics thinks for himself.
Hell, how often have you seen the people even on this board most active in political threads say anything not officially endorsed by the party they claim to vote for?

[xcheck24]

Kids. You make it sound as if he is speaking to knowledgeable, educated students. Let's see what he will speak about and these questions that kids will ask him. Anything political and it is a bad thing.

O.K. Kids.
The president is going to speak to a bunch of kids, who will happen to be in school, and this is a bad thing?

So I guess mayors and other elected officials shouldn't talk to kids either. God forbid. Maybe they'll want to go out and vote when they turn 18.
And people wonder why no one votes.

[Zaylenz]

If anything it'll probably be the usual speech he gives on education. About how hard work and hitting the books can get you very far in life, "just look at what I was able to do." About how you have to put down the video games and read. How parents have to get involved, etc, etc. I highly doubt he'll say anything controversial and he definitely won't talk about anything not related to education.

The people saying he'll be brainwashing kids are just being stupid and paranoid.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Hell, how often have you seen the people even on this board most active in political threads say anything not officially endorsed by the party they claim to vote for?

Well, I do it quite regularly. I vote democrat but I am not registered that way nor do I share all of those views.

[Rhino]

Check, I couldn't agree with you more. Heaven forbid we actually try to stem the apathy that pervades this country when it comes to getting involved. The president can't try to get kids interested in their education and their future from a young age? The outcry seems to be focused on 'indoctrinating' children, but what are the stated parameters of the speech?

"I'm going to be making a big speech to young people all across the country about the importance of education; about the importance of staying in school; how we want to improve our education system and why it’s so important for the country. So I hope everybody tunes in."

The bolded part is the only aspect that even alludes to being political, and of course he wants to pitch his plan. It's his plan. He thinks it's going to work. Unless he will be telling the kids to urge their parents to write their Congressmen and vote Democrat, I don't see the downside with explaining what he wants to do to the group that will be most affected.

But no, we're told, the real problem is the provided discussion points. It's enough that these kids are being addressed. We certainly don't want them to think about what they heard.

The guide for pre-K through grade 6 suggests questions students think about during the speech, such as "What is the President trying to tell me? What is the President asking me to do?"

The plan for grades 7-12 includes a "guided discussion," with suggested topics: "What resonated with you from President Obama's speech? What is President Obama inspiring you to do?"

While the older language is, admittedly, a bit florid for my taste, shouldn't we want our children to be inspired? Inspiration is the seed from which the greatest ideas in the history of mankind has sprung. (Now who's using florid language? But I digress...) And ultimately the discussion points are suggestions, not mandatory. It will be put to the teachers to guide the discussions and moderate the debates.

Final point. The Jim Greer quote:

"The address scheduled for September 8, 2009, does not allow for healthy debate on the President's agenda, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to agree with our President's initiatives or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates."

Really Jim? There's going to be bands of vigilante fifth graders because little Tommy Johnson thinks No Child Left Behind is a bad idea? Susie Brown will get bad grades because she hates tax credits? This. This is precisely indicative of the problem with both political parties right now. Nobody is allowed to disagree. Everybody must follow the same rigid political doctrine or they are a Bad Democrat or a RINO. There can be no gray area even though our population is almost all gray. Our country was born, nay, forged in the fires of vigorous debate and has thrived on the nourishment of diversity. When everybody thinks the same, nobody really thinks at all.

Sorry, I hadn't really intended this to turn into such a WOT rant. It just galls me that nothing in this country can ever be seen anymore as benefiting anything but someone's political capital. So, in summary, it is not bad to get kids to think about their education rather than just being subjected to it.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

shouldn't we want our children to be inspired?

Well yeah. Unless the person inspiring them is some commie pinko bastard!


The sad thing is, many people think this way. Many parents are probably afraid their children will like and respect Obama's opinions, and ruin everything bad they've tried to teach them about him, because they are convinced they are right.

[Hockey101]

I think we as a nation have officially passed the point of no return when it comes to partisanship. Everything is now "left" or "right" and everything the otherwise does is attacked. We democrats are no better than the republicans in this.

I agree. Well said.

[Sed]

An aside: the funny thing about the Greer quote to me is that if you changed a few words, it could be the same argument that you sometimes hear about the recitation of the pledge of allegiance from its opponents:

"The address scheduled for September 8, 2009, does not allow for healthy debate on the President's agenda, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to agree with our President's initiatives or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates."

"The daily recitation of the pledge of allegiance does not allow for individual development of love of country, but rather obligates the youngest children in our public school system to engage in an act of political indoctrination or be ostracized by their teachers and classmates."

This post has been edited by Sed: Sep 4 2009, 02:33 PM

[Nilan 666]

The best part is the firestorm over something he hasn't even said yet. The GOP pre-crime unit better be right this time.

*awaits Minority Report themed joke from the peanut gallery, preferably from Sed*

[Rhino]

The best part is the firestorm over something he hasn't even said yet. The GOP pre-crime unit better be right this time.

*awaits Minority Report themed joke from the peanut gallery, preferably from Sed*

Oh, this reminded me of the other thing that bothered me about the whole thing. Thanks.

On September 8, in what the Department of Education is touting as a "historic" speech, President Obama will be talking directly to students across the U.S., live on the White House website.

Shouldn't this be judged after the fact? I could also do without the theatrical self-promotion. Can't this just be a good thing on its own merits?

[Hockey101]

The best part is the firestorm over something he hasn't even said yet. The GOP pre-crime unit better be right this time.

*awaits Minority Report themed joke from the peanut gallery, preferably from Sed*

Because the Dems never pre-judged anything that Bush did.

[Sed]

*awaits Minority Report themed joke from the peanut gallery, preferably from Sed*

Nah - I hated that movie. You didn't need to be a pre-cog to see the "plot twists" in that one coming.

[Pymonte]

Because the Dems never pre-judged anything that Bush did.

TWO WRONGS TOTALLY MAKE A RIGHT YOU GUYS! IF YOU DID IT THEN WE GET TO DO IT TOO AND IT IS OKAY

[gkrangers]

TWO WRONGS TOTALLY MAKE A RIGHT YOU GUYS! IF YOU DID IT THEN WE GET TO DO IT TOO AND IT IS OKAY

Yeah, this is sort of the problem.

[leetchie69]

Because the Dems never pre-judged anything that Bush did.

I think it degraded over time, especially in his second term. The american people felt the same way.

Right now...

Obama could save a kitten from a tree and the Republicans would spin it negatively somehow.

Tthere are books about him coming out 6 MONTHS into his term with titles such as "CULTURE OF CORRUPTION".

I mean come on...

[TheAnaconda]

...

This post has been edited by TheAnaconda: Sep 6 2009, 08:54 AM

[TheAnaconda]

Because the Dems never pre-judged anything that Bush did.

Actually, most of the Bush dislike was from post-judging what he did.

[Hockey101]

This place has no bias what so ever!

[Pymonte]

This place has no bias what so ever!

Uh huh. Only one towards logical arguments and being rational.

[leetchie69]

Oh man...look at this socialist propaganda he is going to spit out to our innocent kids.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/P...dSchoolRemarks/

[gkrangers]

Oh man...look at this socialist propaganda he is going to spit out to our innocent kids.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/P...dSchoolRemarks/

I know that feeling. When I was young, my family lived in Indonesia for a few years, and my mother didn’t have the money to send me where all the American kids went to school. So she decided to teach me extra lessons herself, Monday through Friday – at 4:30 in the morning.

Terrist!

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Terrist!

alert the birthers, he's giving himself up!!!