Rangerland Forum Information

[jburns]

Holyyyyyyyyyyyy shittttttttttttttttttt.

“I hear a rumor that there will be a shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation … That Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors.”

“I think you’ll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told he had to retire in exchange for a cover up.”

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/11/m...ndusky-scandal/

This post has been edited by jburns: Nov 10 2011, 02:19 PM

[rightbug]

And again, the very first thing I said on this subject:

I've been going back and forth on this one or the past couple of days as well. I agree with everything you said above but I also agree with SATS about the cost to the players.

So let's try not painting this as a cavalier disregard for the consequences of action against the program. Unfortunately, actions have consequences. If the NCAA takes action, they should not be the villains in this story.

[Sed]

So, if a scandal like this happened to, I dunno, the head of Fashion Design at FIT, you'd sit here and say that FIT should do away with it's fashion design department?

[aside]

The difference here is that, if these events did occur in an academic department, there would be no press conferences. There would be no students rioting. Like I said earlier, I believe that if I took the same actions (or, more to the point, inaction) as Paterno did I'd lose my job - and rightfully so. But because I'm "just" faculty, nobody would care. Any time you hear higher ed being vilified, the bulk of the public ire is directed at the professoriate, when much of that anger should be placed at the feet of administration.

[/aside]

This post has been edited by Sed: Nov 10 2011, 11:07 AM

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

You want a compromise? Ban them from bowl games for a couple of seasons. The program stays, they are still a D 1 school, the kids are still in the national spotlight playing against national teams.

This whole conversation is probably moot anyway. I'm fairly certain none of this falls under the NCAAs jurisdiction.

[Sed]

You want a compromise? Ban them from bowl games for a couple of seasons. The program stays, they are still a D 1 school, the kids are still in the national spotlight playing against national teams.

This whole conversation is probably moot anyway. I'm fairly certain none of this falls under the NCAAs jurisdiction.

I have a feeling that this will be the final outcome.

[Tex]

Holyyyyyyyyyyyy shittttttttttttttttttt.

“I hear a rumor that there will be a shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation … That Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors.”

it is time to send in The Boondock Saints of Boston.

[Sed]

Onion Sports: Sports Media Asks Molestation Victims What This Means For Joe Paterno's Legacy

[Paul Smachetti]

the extenuating circumstances would likely lead to NCAA waivers on the transfer rules, too. True, people wanting to transfer out still need to get accepted to new homes, but they shouldn't be penalized for needing to leave.

You beat me to this point. I agree,there would likely be some kind of waiver.
The students rioting over the Paterno firing should be ashamed of themselves. It's disgraceful!

This post has been edited by Paul Smachetti: Nov 10 2011, 12:41 PM

[leedsy99]

In response to the idea of sanctions for the football program, I move beyond just the "I feel bad for the players" approach. Everyone with any attachment whatsoever to the program is now affected. What about a shop owner around Beaver Stadium that makes his living off of the home-game crowd? What about the thousands of other students that enjoy advantages (including scholarships) as a result of the revenue created by the program? What about routine fans that don't get to watch the games anymore? This, to me, is almost a nuclear reaction to what is essentially one of many (sadly) common criminal activities that are commited every day in the country.

I distinguish this from a program violation (like point shaving) because that effects the competitive spirit of the game, and gets right to the integrity of the sport itself. You need to severely punish that to maintain the idea that the games actually matter. This was a crime committed by one person -- and we have a criminal justice system in place to deal with it. Perhaps other crimes were committed in the process of a "cover up" -- the same system will deal with this as well. This is also a violation of pretty clear university policies about disclosure and reporting -- again, addressed within the school. People are going to prison/jail. People are losing jobs. People's entire reputations are tarnished. And the school will have to pay BILLIONS in civil fees and lost revenue. How does anyone think that justice won't be served unless they stop playing football at Penn State? Do you think a victim is this case will sleep better about knowing that the next Kerry Collins has to play quarterback at Michigan instead of Penn State?

This is such a gross overreaction by the public, who instantly cry outrage and distrust about a system they know almost nothing about. People wonder why we live in a less free society, yet the public constantly demands more rules and tighter sanctions at every step.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

In response to the idea of sanctions for the football program, I move beyond just the "I feel bad for the players" approach. Everyone with any attachment whatsoever to the program is now affected. What about a shop owner around Beaver Stadium that makes his living off of the home-game crowd? What about the thousands of other students that enjoy advantages (including scholarships) as a result of the revenue created by the program? What about routine fans that don't get to watch the games anymore? This, to me, is almost a nuclear reaction to what is essentially one of many (sadly) common criminal activities that are commited every day in the country.

I distinguish this from a program violation (like point shaving) because that effects the competitive spirit of the game, and gets right to the integrity of the sport itself. You need to severely punish that to maintain the idea that the games actually matter. This was a crime committed by one person -- and we have a criminal justice system in place to deal with it. Perhaps other crimes were committed in the process of a "cover up" -- the same system will deal with this as well. This is also a violation of pretty clear university policies about disclosure and reporting -- again, addressed within the school. People are going to prison/jail. People are losing jobs. People's entire reputations are tarnished. And the school will have to pay BILLIONS in civil fees and lost revenue. How does anyone think that justice won't be served unless they stop playing football at Penn State? Do you think a victim is this case will sleep better about knowing that the next Kerry Collins has to play quarterback at Michigan instead of Penn State?

This is such a gross overreaction by the public, who instantly cry outrage and distrust about a system they know almost nothing about. People wonder why we live in a less free society, yet the public constantly demands more rules and tighter sanctions at every step.

well said Leedsy

[Chris4]

$800.00 for one night a buddy of mine paid for a dump motel room on the interstate the weekend of Alabama-Penn State.

The local businesses sustain half a fiscal year on the 3 month football season. That is certainly true.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Hey burns, thanks for embedding a video that autoplays everytime I open the thread

[jburns]

Hey burns, thanks for embedding a video that autoplays everytime I open the thread

Go fuck yourself.

[rightbug]

In response to the idea of sanctions for the football program, I move beyond just the "I feel bad for the players" approach. Everyone with any attachment whatsoever to the program is now affected. What about a shop owner around Beaver Stadium that makes his living off of the home-game crowd? What about the thousands of other students that enjoy advantages (including scholarships) as a result of the revenue created by the program? What about routine fans that don't get to watch the games anymore? This, to me, is almost a nuclear reaction to what is essentially one of many (sadly) common criminal activities that are commited every day in the country.

I distinguish this from a program violation (like point shaving) because that effects the competitive spirit of the game, and gets right to the integrity of the sport itself. You need to severely punish that to maintain the idea that the games actually matter. This was a crime committed by one person -- and we have a criminal justice system in place to deal with it. Perhaps other crimes were committed in the process of a "cover up" -- the same system will deal with this as well. This is also a violation of pretty clear university policies about disclosure and reporting -- again, addressed within the school. People are going to prison/jail. People are losing jobs. People's entire reputations are tarnished. And the school will have to pay BILLIONS in civil fees and lost revenue.

This is all well stated and helps clarify my thoughts on the subject. My only counter to that would be that the cover up was done to protect this cash cow. But, overall, I tend to agree with what you said above.

This is such a gross overreaction by the public, who instantly cry outrage and distrust about a system they know almost nothing about. People wonder why we live in a less free society, yet the public constantly demands more rules and tighter sanctions at every step.

This, however, is just silly. "People who want to see sanctions against Penn State's football program are ruining America!!!"

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Hey burns, thanks for embedding a video that autoplays everytime I open the thread

Go fuck yourself.

huh huhhuh huh you said fuck.

[toph]

Hey burns, thanks for embedding a video that autoplays everytime I open the thread

Go fuck yourself.

I laughed out loud.

[Bleedin-Blue]

So, just because kid rape is done elsewhere in the world, that makes this instance any less outrageous? That's a pretty shitty way to look at it. I wonder what the parents of the molested would have to say about that. This is a Penn State University problem and the university needs to be held accountable. You're talking about one of the most well-respected schools in the country and also, arguably, THE most respected coach in Division I-A history. This man and others in his circle either witnessed or were with knowledge of a man engaging children in sex almost ten years ago and not a single thing was done about it after the fact. Oh wait; other than passing the buck to the guy upstairs. Who knows how many other children were subjected to that animal because everyone else just kept their mouths shut? Hell, he still had a fucking office on the campus grounds up until last week! Like I said earlier, either this is one MASSIVE cover-up or these are some really awful and disgraceful human beings. Which ever it is, if I'm a parent of a student at that school, I am holding the entire university responsible. What's that saying? The only thing needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing? I think that fits this scenario quite well. Penn State as a whole is at fault here and, as a whole, it needs to reap the consequences.

Also, the fact that McQueary still has a job within this organization speaks volumes to their focus right now. If you want to make good on your promise to rebuild your reputation as Penn State, you need to clean house and he MUST be fired. Because he was either too apathetic to stop it from happening upon witnessing or he is part of the whole cover-up itself. Both those explanations have to equal expulsion. This investigation will only get worse as time goes on.

[Greatone]

How does ruining the current players situation rectify the situation? The players had nothing to do with this and the idea that they should become victims of this as well is absurd.

The President, head coach and anyone else who had an idea about this like McQueary should be gone and the school should be fined. Otherwise let the courts handle the molester.

[toph]

That argument makes zero sense. Why would parents want the school to be objectively worse off for their children? What does that accomplish? Penn State is already going to be stained, but there is no reason that students and the surrounding town should bear additional burdens because of a handful of higher-up's reprehensible actions. The University will already bear astronomical costs for this and has to work to shed the immorality halo this pedophile freak forced upon the entire school.

"Let's bring down the entire University because a handful of administrators are disgusting humans."

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

How does ruining the current players situation rectify the situation? The players had nothing to do with this and the idea that they should become victims of this as well is absurd.

The President, head coach and anyone else who had an idea about this like McQueary should be gone and the school should be fined. Otherwise let the courts handle the molester.

Because people need to be punished.

Ya know, I'm not entirely convinced that this doesn't go all the way up to a government level. Mhmm, I'm sure the President of the school and others had a working relationship with local politicians, and with Penn State football being such a revenue builder for the community, they probably had law enforcement look the other way too.

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

One can only hope that from now one when ebay refers to it's shipping policies it says "anywhere in the 47 contiguous United States"

[Greatone]

That argument makes zero sense. Why would parents want the school to be objectively worse off for their children? What does that accomplish? Penn State is already going to be stained, but there is no reason that students and the surrounding town should bear additional burdens because of a handful of higher-up's reprehensible actions. The University will already bear astronomical costs for this and has to work to shed the immorality halo this pedophile freak forced upon the entire school.

"Let's bring down the entire University because a handful of administrators are disgusting humans."

Thank you.

[rightbug]

Ya know, I'm not entirely convinced that this doesn't go all the way up to a government level. Mhmm, I'm sure the President of the school and others had a working relationship with local politicians, and with Penn State football being such a revenue builder for the community, they probably had law enforcement look the other way too.

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

One can only hope that from now one when ebay refers to it's shipping policies it says "anywhere in the 47 contiguous United States"

Okay Andy.

[Greatone]

Ya know, I'm not entirely convinced that this doesn't go all the way up to a government level. Mhmm, I'm sure the President of the school and others had a working relationship with local politicians, and with Penn State football being such a revenue builder for the community, they probably had law enforcement look the other way too.

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

One can only hope that from now one when ebay refers to it's shipping policies it says "anywhere in the 47 contiguous United States"

Okay Andy.

I understand the outrage. I want to fucking shoot everyone on my newsfeed who is angry that "JoePa" got the boot because he is a legend. Go fuck yourselves.

But I don't think innocent people like the players should get punishment heaped onto them as well. It's a delicate situation and one that seems to be just getting started with additional info coming out, but I just don't think the football program or the student body and community should get destroyed as well. This was a Penn State leadership problem. Not a football player problem.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Ya know, I'm not entirely convinced that this doesn't go all the way up to a government level. Mhmm, I'm sure the President of the school and others had a working relationship with local politicians, and with Penn State football being such a revenue builder for the community, they probably had law enforcement look the other way too.

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

One can only hope that from now one when ebay refers to it's shipping policies it says "anywhere in the 47 contiguous United States"

Okay Andy.

People saying they want the football program to be punished in ways like "remove them from the BCS" sound like this to me. Sorry, it's how my brain perceives it because it's just as ridiculous.

I knew it would happen to, where does the outrage end? First it was Sandusky, obviously. The it went to Paterno. He got canned. Now people want the football program to be severely punished by the NCAA, with some people even talking about removing the football program altogether.

Will people finally be happy then, or is the next step talking about removing Penn State's ability to be a recognized university? When do the punishments end and people realize nothing will satisfy the anger and sadness the community is feeling right now because unfortunately what happened happened, and the people directly involved are being punished by our judicial system, the way things are supposed to be done.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Okay Andy.

and I did laugh

[Alitaki]

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

Well let's not forget Rick Santorum, the Pittsburgh sports teams and Philadelphia so yeah, I'm pretty much on board with your suggestion.

[Sed]

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

Well let's not forget Rick Santorum, the Pittsburgh sports teams and Philadelphia so yeah, I'm pretty much on board with your suggestion.

Also: Mummers.

[Kusand]

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

Well let's not forget Rick Santorum, the Pittsburgh sports teams and Philadelphia so yeah, I'm pretty much on board with your suggestion.

Does this mean my income from the PA area is untaxed? Because I could go for that.

[Alitaki]

We should probably remove the entire state of Pennsylvania from the United States because it's an embarassment to our country based on this atrocity alone.

Well let's not forget Rick Santorum, the Pittsburgh sports teams and Philadelphia so yeah, I'm pretty much on board with your suggestion.

Does this mean my income from the PA area is untaxed? Because I could go for that.

Well since the state would no longer be a member of the Union, they'd be free to do whatever they want with their taxes. Of course this would probably lead to a lot of hostility from Americans like you that are being taxed ridiculously by the Fiefdom of Pennsylvania and that would probably lead to a war between our two sovereign nations, which we would win of course. Then we'd incorporate them back into the Union, pay to restore all the shit we blew up in The Two Hour War and have to deal with their bullshit again until something else happens in their wretched state which causes us to kick them out again.

[Tex]

we'd incorporate them back into the Union, pay to restore all the shit we blew up in The Two Hour War and have to deal with their bullshit again until something else happens in their wretched state which causes us to kick them out again.

dang. it is true. we just can't have nice things, can we?

[xcdudesquadloves...]

My facebook breeds retards, but it also breeds this!

I can't believe Penn State ousted Joe Paterno. Isn't it common knowledge that being a really successful college football coach makes it okay to cover up for child rapists?

God this is like so unfair. Let me go riot in the streets about it.

I thought it was great.

[jconnelly16]

Well since the state would no longer be a member of the Union, they'd be free to do whatever they want with their taxes. Of course this would probably lead to a lot of hostility from Americans like you that are being taxed ridiculously by the Fiefdom of Pennsylvania and that would probably lead to a war between our two sovereign nations, which we would win of course. Then we'd incorporate them back into the Union, pay to restore all the shit we blew up in The Two Hour War and have to deal with their bullshit again until something else happens in their wretched state which causes us to kick them out again.

We'll have to simply get Dr. Evil on board and we can simply vaporize the state of Pennsyltucky with a giant "Laser".

This post has been edited by Alitaki: Nov 11 2011, 04:18 PM

Reason for edit: fixed quote tags

[TheAnaconda]

My only counter to that would be that the cover up was done to protect this cash cow.

See, my opinion on this is just the opposite of that. If, when Paterno found out about this, he really had the best interests of the school at heart, he would have turned him in immediately. Penn State and the administration would be looked at in a much more favorable light, and could say with honesty that once they found out the allegations, he was let go and police were notified. The school would still have integrity, and could even spin it into them being heroes for turning in one of their own. Instead, Paterno and Co. decided to risk what is happening right now to the school in order to try and keep their buddy and co-worker out of jail. So, in my opinion, Joe Pa wasn't looking out for Penn State or trying to preserve the program. He was looking out for his friend, at the EXPENSE of Penn State.

[Alitaki]

we'd incorporate them back into the Union, pay to restore all the shit we blew up in The Two Hour War and have to deal with their bullshit again until something else happens in their wretched state which causes us to kick them out again.

dang. it is true. we just can't have nice things, can we?

Don't draw attention to yourself. I'm still trying to work out a way to give Texas back to Mexico.

[Lester Patrick]

Here's a copy of the grand jury report:

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

It's 23 pages, double spaced, but incredible.

[Nilan 666]

I got way too many friends who now live in Penn to allow it to be destroyed.

[jconnelly16]

I got way too many friends who now live in Penn to allow it to be destroyed.

Give them a heads up and tell them to get onto a party bus and head to AC.

[xcheck24]

http://deadspin.com/5859075/judge-who-set-...-mile-volunteer

No words.

[Sed]

http://deadspin.com/5859075/judge-who-set-...-mile-volunteer

No words.

Is State College in fucking Hazzard County?

[jconnelly16]

http://deadspin.com/5859075/judge-who-set-...-mile-volunteer

No words.

I guess the "How did he get away with this for so long" question is sort of being answered. What a freaking joke.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I find it odd that she didn't excuse herself from the case, I don't really find the terms of the bail all that odd.

I don't necessarily like it, but this is how our Justice system work.

[leedsy99]

I don't necessarily like it, but this is how our Justice system work.

What exactly does this mean?

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I don't necessarily like it, but this is how our Justice system work.

What exactly does this mean?

It seemed like people take issue with the lighter bail. It's my understanding this happens all the time?

[Tex]

Don't draw attention to yourself. I'm still trying to work out a way to give Texas back to Mexico.

[leedsy99]

It seemed like people take issue with the lighter bail. It's my understanding this happens all the time?

"People" -- which I use in the most general sense -- want everything resolved immediately, and in the heightened age of information sharing the court of public opinion settles everything well before our actual judicial system does. Just read this thread alone for some conclusions about this case, all of which seem to forget that these are allegations and the screening process to render a valid accusation against someone is very low. Anyway, the purpose of keeping someone in custody is either because they are a flight risk and/or an immediate danger to the community. Bail is the financial incentive to remain at large while the case is pending, with the philosophy being that at the risk of losing X amount of dollars, you're going to make your court appearances. In this case, you're dealing with the most notorious accused pedophile in the entire world right now -- where is he going to go? Considering his method of molestation (gaining trust and manipulating victims), is he an at-large risk to the public? As such, he's getting a bail amount set, regardless of the amount. Is it a little low? Maybe, but again the only purpose is to guarantee he comes to court at this point.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

It seemed like people take issue with the lighter bail. It's my understanding this happens all the time?

"People" -- which I use in the most general sense -- want everything resolved immediately, and in the heightened age of information sharing the court of public opinion settles everything well before our actual judicial system does. Just read this thread alone for some conclusions about this case, all of which seem to forget that these are allegations and the screening process to render a valid accusation against someone is very low. Anyway, the purpose of keeping someone in custody is either because they are a flight risk and/or an immediate danger to the community. Bail is the financial incentive to remain at large while the case is pending, with the philosophy being that at the risk of losing X amount of dollars, you're going to make your court appearances. In this case, you're dealing with the most notorious accused pedophile in the entire world right now -- where is he going to go? Considering his method of molestation (gaining trust and manipulating victims), is he an at-large risk to the public? As such, he's getting a bail amount set, regardless of the amount. Is it a little low? Maybe, but again the only purpose is to guarantee he comes to court at this point.

Exactly, that's what I was driving at. I think she probably should've excused herself, but I also don't think the terms of the bail were anything out of the ordinary to point to a reason as to why she should excuse herself.

At the same time, I'm not entirely sure she had to excuse herself upon further review. Does she have ANY connection to him whatsoever other than volunteering with the group he founded? If not, I don't really view it as being that bad.

If a judge held a job at McDonalds as a teenager was assigned a case against the CEO of McDonalds, should the judge excuse themselves in that instance?

[jburns]

He's going to commit suicide before his trial.

[Sed]

Exactly, that's what I was driving at. I think she probably should've excused herself, but I also don't think the terms of the bail were anything out of the ordinary to point to a reason as to why she should excuse herself.

At the same time, I'm not entirely sure she had to excuse herself upon further review. Does she have ANY connection to him whatsoever other than volunteering with the group he founded? If not, I don't really view it as being that bad.

If a judge held a job at McDonalds as a teenager was assigned a case against the CEO of McDonalds, should the judge excuse themselves in that instance?

That may very well be the case (I'm guessing that it probably is) - but it's the perception of a possible conflict of interest that (IMO) should have led her to recuse herself here.

Something interesting that I learned: in PA, university faculty & staff do not fall under the category of "mandatory reporters" for suspected cases of child sexual abuse. Found that a bit surprising. I'm not certain what the law is in CT, but I'd always assumed that as a university employee that I would be mandated to report if I suspected sexual abuse.

[jconnelly16]

Exactly, that's what I was driving at. I think she probably should've excused herself, but I also don't think the terms of the bail were anything out of the ordinary to point to a reason as to why she should excuse herself.

At the same time, I'm not entirely sure she had to excuse herself upon further review. Does she have ANY connection to him whatsoever other than volunteering with the group he founded? If not, I don't really view it as being that bad.

If a judge held a job at McDonalds as a teenager was assigned a case against the CEO of McDonalds, should the judge excuse themselves in that instance?

That may very well be the case (I'm guessing that it probably is) - but it's the perception of a possible conflict of interest that (IMO) should have led her to recuse herself here.

Something interesting that I learned: in PA, university faculty & staff do not fall under the category of "mandatory reporters" for suspected cases of child sexual abuse. Found that a bit surprising. I'm not certain what the law is in CT, but I'd always assumed that as a university employee that I would be mandated to report if I suspected sexual abuse.

Not trying to stoke the fire, but I wonder how long that little loop hole has been in place. What I'm getting at is, I wonder if it was something that helped protect Penn State.

[Sed]

No, I don't think that that's the case. Mandatory reporters in PA are those who are determined to have care of and/or contact with minors as part of their job.

EDIT: Interesting - according to the Department of Health & Human Services:

Each state’s reporting requirements identify certain individuals who are required to notify the authorities of suspected abuse. Although it varies by state, mandated reporters are typically individuals who encounter children through their professional capacity. In Pennsylvania, the statute requires all individuals who encounter a case of abuse through their professional capacity to make a report. More often, a state’s statute will refer to a number of specific professions.[29] Common professions include: physical and mental health providers, teachers, child care workers, legal professionals (e.g., judges, magistrates, attorneys, law enforcement officers), clergy members, and employees of state agencies that deal with children and families.[30] In addition, some states designate any individual who provides care or treatment to children as a mandatory reporter (e.g., Alabama, Missouri, Montana). In 18 states, any individual who suspects that a child has been the victim of abuse is required to notify the proper authorities.[31]