Rangerland Forum Information

[Dr. D]

I know this has been discussed in several other threads, but now that the rumor is getting attention from people other than Bruce Garrioch, I figure we should put it all in once place.

Puck Daddy on the Nash trade rumors:

Report: Rick Nash on the trading block; are the Rangers ready to pounce?

Renaud Lavoie of RDS reported on Monday that an NHL general manager confirmed to him Nash is in play and has been offered around to some teams -- news that was confirmed by a second source.

Why mess with chemistry?

Well, because GM Glen Sather can add an elite goal scorer on Brad Richards's wing, and give Nash the elite playmaking center he's never had. Not just this season, but through 2018 when Nash's contract runs its course. How can they afford his cap hit of $7.8 million? Take Dubinsky's $4.2 million off the books and utilize the $15 million in cap space they're projected to have in 2012-13 to fill in the blanks.

But if Nash is available, the Rangers won't be alone in the bidding. The Washington Capitals had two scouts at the Jackets/Ducks game on Sunday, as did Dallas, Detroit and Pittsburgh. Portzline reports that Columbus assistant GM Chris MacFarland and pro scout Pete Dineen watched the Capitals and Sharks on Monday night in D.C.

If there's any legs to the Garrioch rumor that the Blue Jackets will want Dubinsky, Kreider, and a 1st, I say you pull the trigger on that. The dude is an incredible talented who has been surrounded by a bunch of bozos in Columbus for nine years. Yeah, you give up Dubi (who seems expendable in almost everyone's opinion nowadays) and Kreider, who seems like a great prospect. But this is an elite-level goal scorer that the team desperately needs, and he's locked up through 2018. I think he puts the team over the threshold from a really good team to one who is a serious contender for a Stanley Cup.

Get Nash.

This post has been edited by Dr. D: Feb 14 2012, 12:35 AM

[jkman61494]

I just think another team is going to give up a lot more than Dubi, Kreider and a first.

[Dr. D]

I just think another team is going to give up a lot more than Dubi, Kreider and a first.

Hopefully Sather has nude pictures of their GMs with Croatian hookers like he had of Bob Gainey when he traded Gomez for McDonagh.

[Rocha]

I'd be all for getting Nash, but man, Kreider seems like the real deal. Watching him play in the Beanpot championship tonight, I'm very hesitant on moving him. He's big and fast and strong and has a great shot. Sheeeet.

Dubinsky, Erixon, Thomas, McIlrath, 2012 #1 (which will be bottom 5 of the round if not last).

But that doesn't get Nash, I don't think. Thomas and McIlrath are unknowns and the pick won't be great.

[Rocha]

Pre-emptive: Yes, I know, Brian, it's a great team as-is, but if you can get a 40-goal scorer for the price of Dubisnky and a lot of unknowns, you have to look into it.

[Andy from the LE...]

Eh, the Theory of Superstar trades states that top talents often get traded for far less than you think. Slats might pull a rabbit out of a hat here.

[Nilan 666]

See also the Scott Howson isn't a very good GM theorem.

[Dr. D]

Eh, the Theory of Superstar trades states that top talents often get traded for far less than you think. Slats might pull a rabbit out of a hat here.

Remember when he almost traded Grachev and Dubinsky for Steven Stamkos? The man can fucking deal.

[jkman61494]

Eh, the Theory of Superstar trades states that top talents often get traded for far less than you think. Slats might pull a rabbit out of a hat here.

I understand the theory but I also think you could see this theory shift in the day and age of salary cap and OTL hockey when you honestly have about 25 buyers and 5 sellers. Even teams like the Islanders, Ducks, Lightning and Canadians can make a case for being in the playoff hunt a few weeks from now unless they take a nose dive.

[Dr. D]

I'd be all for getting Nash, but man, Kreider seems like the real deal. Watching him play in the Beanpot championship tonight, I'm very hesitant on moving him. He's big and fast and strong and has a great shot. Sheeeet.

Dubinsky, Erixon, Thomas, McIlrath, 2012 #1 (which will be bottom 5 of the round if not last).

But that doesn't get Nash, I don't think. Thomas and McIlrath are unknowns and the pick won't be great.

Yeah, moving Kreider is tough, but you've gotta give up something good to get something good...most of the time. I agree that Slats should try to weasel out of trading him, but I think Rick Nash is one of the players that you can give Kreider up to acquire.

[Fuzz]

I'd hate to see Kreider traded but Nash is ultimately what we would hope to see him turn into, if we're that lucky. Trading Dubi at this point is a homer issue, i want to see him bounce bacj but no way do you turn away a player like Nash. We'll be kinda cap fucked soon with all these 8 mil players.

If Sather can do it by swapping some of our touted Dman prospects and throw in Dubi, i can't argue with that. Give them the first rounder too, it doesn't matter, i'd rather a cup.

[Rocha]

Normally I'd agree that maybe Sather could pull another rabbit out of a hat and steal Nash for less like he's done in the past, but not this time. Columbus is a very beleaguered franchise. Their fans are fed up to the point where they held a protest Bettman needed to make a public statement. They need good players back for the face of their franchise, and ones who aren't that far away. I think Howson would be run out of town via pitchfork if he traded Nash for Dubinsky and a bunch of mediocre prospects.

[jkman61494]

I'd hate to see Kreider traded but Nash is ultimately what we would hope to see him turn into, if we're that lucky. Trading Dubi at this point is a homer issue, i want to see him bounce bacj but no way do you turn away a player like Nash. We'll be kinda cap fucked soon with all these 8 mil players.

While 12-13 would not be a problem, it's moving forward from there where I'd see this being a big issue. Our cup window would be these two years.

I'd have to think Gaborik would no longer be in our long term plans after his current contract so we could sign guys like McDonagh, Girardi, MDZ, Callahan etc to long term deals.

[leedsy99]

He hasn't score 40 goals in his past three seasons, and one of those 40-goal seasons was in his second year. He's absolutely responsible for Columbus being the worst franchise in hockey, and he's now outright quitting on the team. He's not in good shape. He's being outscored this season by Ryan Callahan. But my favorite part is the whole idea that he's going to mesh with the talent already on the team, a myth that has been so thoroughly debunked by the history of the New York Rangers that I'm starting to think that most of you may not even watch the games but rather simulate them on your Playstation.

He's a talent and you can't not get talent when it's handed for you at ten cents on the dollar. But please don't kind yourself that he's a superstar in the league. He has accomplished nothing in the NHL in almost a decade.

[Charlie]

He hasn't score 40 goals in his past three seasons, and one of those 40-goal seasons was in his second year. He's absolutely responsible for Columbus being the worst franchise in hockey, and he's now outright quitting on the team. He's not in good shape. He's being outscored this season by Ryan Callahan. But my favorite part is the whole idea that he's going to mesh with the talent already on the team, a myth that has been so thoroughly debunked by the history of the New York Rangers that I'm starting to think that most of you may not even watch the games but rather simulate them on your Playstation.

He's a talent and you can't not get talent when it's handed for you at ten cents on the dollar. But please don't kind yourself that he's a superstar in the league. He has accomplished nothing in the NHL in almost a decade.

See, this makes no sense to me.

Care to explain?

[Greatone]

Key sentence in that article: NASH NEVER WANTED TO PLAY IN A BIG MARKET WITH PRESSURE!

But hey, let's trade big pieces from the organization for him and throw him into New York and into the lineup for the #1 seed.

Pass. I'll go to war with Dubinsky and Kreider.

[jkman61494]

He hasn't score 40 goals in his past three seasons, and one of those 40-goal seasons was in his second year. He's absolutely responsible for Columbus being the worst franchise in hockey, and he's now outright quitting on the team. He's not in good shape. He's being outscored this season by Ryan Callahan. But my favorite part is the whole idea that he's going to mesh with the talent already on the team, a myth that has been so thoroughly debunked by the history of the New York Rangers that I'm starting to think that most of you may not even watch the games but rather simulate them on your Playstation.

He's a talent and you can't not get talent when it's handed for you at ten cents on the dollar. But please don't kind yourself that he's a superstar in the league. He has accomplished nothing in the NHL in almost a decade.

I am honestly on the fence, but you could use a lot of your arguments towards Gaborik. He's had some 40 goal seasons but also several where he's been way off. They both average nearly .90 ppg for their careers. IF they could get Nash for the asking price listed here, I'd take it.

As much as you talk about trades gone awry, so to have can't miss prospects.

[Greatone]

I'd rather deal with Kreider flaming out, which is highly highly unlikely, over dealing with a guy who can't deal with pressure until 2018 and cap fucking the organization.

Chris Kreider everyone is for real. I know I said I'd move him because his ceiling is what Rick Nash is, but with the personality questions now theres a better chance Chris Kreider plays like Rick Nash in New York than Rick Nash would.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

If it takes that little, and you can substitute Thomas in for Kreider (sorry love Christian Thomas, but his fucking 10-15 game suspension at the beginning of the season really raised some red flags), and just add in McIlrath for shits and giggles I would do it in a heartbeat.

Dubinsky, Thomas, McIlrath, and a first.

Then again I'm starting to think it would be better to do in the offseason to do right now, when the price may be a little lower? I don't think that trade gets it done right now.

[Charlie]

If it takes that little, and you can substitute Thomas in for Kreider (sorry love Christian Thomas, but his fucking 10-15 game suspension at the beginning of the season really raised some red flags), and just add in McIlrath for shits and giggles I would do it in a heartbeat.

Dubinsky, Thomas, McIlrath, and a first.

Then again I'm starting to think it would be better to do in the offseason to do right now, when the price may be a little lower? I don't think that trade gets it done right now.

Eh, I don't think it raised red flags. It was almost certainly intentional (although I don't think he has ever said that), but besides that he has always been a good citizen. It's hard to see his temper, if he even has one, being a problem on this team, with this coach.

McIlrath's recent suspension is much more worrisome (high hit that got him 10 I think). A guy who was drafted partly because of his physicality giving a brutal, high hit is a different story. He lined up the hit from a mile away, saw he was going to miss (and hit his own player) than stuck his arm up. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.



The good angle starts around 1:26.

I have literally no idea how he is going to turn out, but Pete's analogy a while back about shopping hungry just seems so perfect.

[Chris4]

Key sentence in that article: NASH NEVER WANTED TO PLAY IN A BIG MARKET WITH PRESSURE!

But hey, let's trade big pieces from the organization for him and throw him into New York and into the lineup for the #1 seed.

Pass. I'll go to war with Dubinsky and Kreider.

Yeah, I'm with this. Fuckin stupid Leedsy gets me every time with the "the team sucks, so that means their best player sucks too" argument.

I'm as hesitant to trade a big kid who I'm being told by you guys skates like Carl Hagelin as I am to bust up the man love locker room that is 100% the reason why this team wins so many games.

Serious question, when was the last time a first place, rolling team pulled off a blockbuster and traded key pieces mid season for a permanent player locked up for a long time? ie. NOT Hossa to the Penguins. I just don't think that happens.

[TeamStewie]

Key sentence in that article: NASH NEVER WANTED TO PLAY IN A BIG MARKET WITH PRESSURE!

But hey, let's trade big pieces from the organization for him and throw him into New York and into the lineup for the #1 seed.

Pass. I'll go to war with Dubinsky and Kreider.

And THAT is what has always been my biggest beef with this trade. If Nash had any interest at all in winning he had the opportunity to leave but instead chose a big paycheck and no pressure obscurity. This isn't fantasy hockey people. Just because his stats are OK doesn't mean you can just slide him in there with absolutely no ripple effects on the lineup.

[Charlie]

Key sentence in that article: NASH NEVER WANTED TO PLAY IN A BIG MARKET WITH PRESSURE!

But hey, let's trade big pieces from the organization for him and throw him into New York and into the lineup for the #1 seed.

Pass. I'll go to war with Dubinsky and Kreider.

And THAT is what has always been my biggest beef with this trade. If Nash had any interest at all in winning he had the opportunity to leave but instead chose a big paycheck and no pressure obscurity. This isn't fantasy hockey people. Just because his stats are OK doesn't mean you can just slide him in there with absolutely no ripple effects on the lineup.

He was sort of in a no win situation. He either stays home, shows his commitment to the franchise, and gets labeled a guy who doesn't want to win

Or,

He goes somewhere else, is labeled a traitor by the Columbus fans, and seen as a mercenary by everyone else.

I don't want to use the Lebron comparison because it doesn't fit all too well (better player on a better team) but it's the same principle.

[TeamStewie]

He was sort of in a no win situation. He either stays home, shows his commitment to the franchise, and gets labeled a guy who doesn't want to win

Or,

He goes somewhere else, is labeled a traitor by the Columbus fans, and seen as a mercenary by everyone else.

I don't want to use the Lebron comparison because it doesn't fit all too well (better player on a better team) but it's the same principle.

That is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read but regardless if he's such a big pussy that he's worried about that who the hell would want him? If he's that sensy he will get eaten up in a market that actually gives a shit.

This post has been edited by TeamStewie: Feb 14 2012, 08:00 AM

[xcdudesquadloves...]

He was sort of in a no win situation. He either stays home, shows his commitment to the franchise, and gets labeled a guy who doesn't want to win

Or,

He goes somewhere else, is labeled a traitor by the Columbus fans, and seen as a mercenary by everyone else.

I don't want to use the Lebron comparison because it doesn't fit all too well (better player on a better team) but it's the same principle.

That is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read but regardless if he's such a big pussy that he's worried about that who the hell would want him? If he's that sensy he will get eaten up in a market that actually gives a shit.

I didn't realize that staying in the franchise you first overall and wanting them to win makes him a "pussy" but ok I guess...

[Andy from the LE...]

Honestly, I think it's still carter that gets traded first, btw. And given how disastrous he's been there, HE can probably be had for jack shit.

[TeamStewie]

Aside from all that he is still the captain and yet it took Vinnie Prospal all of a month to actually show some leadership and comment on what a clusterfuck that team is. It's not one specific thing with him but a whole lot of little things that don't add up to a good picture.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

Honestly, I think it's still carter that gets traded first, btw. And given how disastrous he's been there, HE can probably be had for jack shit.

He's signed through 2022 and a lockerroom cancer, but at least he didn't willingly sign in Columbus a team that gave Rick Nash a shitton of money for 5 years and where his home happened to be and where he was signed first overall.

In summation, he's not a "pussy" for being traded to Columbus and apparently tanking on his team so he can get traded out.

[TeamStewie]

No that just makes him an asshole. Relatively speaking I'd rather have the pussy but I truly don't want either at the moment. If we make this deal there probably won't be any money to sign Gabby when the time comes in a couple of years.

This post has been edited by TeamStewie: Feb 14 2012, 08:26 AM

[xcdudesquadloves...]

Key sentence in that article: NASH NEVER WANTED TO PLAY IN A BIG MARKET WITH PRESSURE!

I still don't understand where this is coming from.

He resigned in Columbus after they made the playoffs, and wanted the team to move forward.

"Rick is a Blue Jacket. He is our captain, the foundation of our team and one of the elite players in the National Hockey League and we are very happy that he will continue to call Columbus home for many years to come," general manager Scott Howson said in a release. "This is an important and exciting day for our franchise and our fans."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=283635

After Steve Mason had a sensational rookie year he has been throughly mediocre, being outplayed by the likes of Mathieu Garon and Curtis Sanford, and when the team makes some big offseason moves to complement Nash (Wisniewski, Carter, and Prospal), but Mason has been abhorrent, Wisniewski got hurt, and they really have no defense besides Wisniewski and Tytuin, the former has missed 20+ games, and Nash continues to be the leading scorer on this team.

Its also really hard to fucking win, when your starter has a .884 SV%, and gives up 3.45 goals a game!

But Rick Nash is a pussy for staying committed to the team that drafted him, and thinking they would take a step forward after their first ever playoff appearence. Gotcha.

[TeamStewie]

You know, no one actually SAID he was a pussy but if you've got the ball I guess you gotta run with it

[ak996]

Eh, the Theory of Superstar trades states that top talents often get traded for far less than you think. Slats might pull a rabbit out of a hat here.

I understand the theory but I also think you could see this theory shift in the day and age of salary cap and OTL hockey when you honestly have about 25 buyers and 5 sellers. Even teams like the Islanders, Ducks, Lightning and Canadians can make a case for being in the playoff hunt a few weeks from now unless they take a nose dive.

This has held true over the last 6+ years that the salary cap has been in place, from the Thornton trade to the Kovalchuk one. It's never superstar for superstar, it's superstar for 2nd/3rd line guy(s), prospect and pick. Even if the argument is that it's different since he's still under contract and thus more valuable then a rental you can still look back at the Thornton trade which was for Strum, Primeau (Wayne, not Kieth) and Brad Stuart.

[Alitaki]

He was sort of in a no win situation. He either stays home, shows his commitment to the franchise, and gets labeled a guy who doesn't want to win

Or,

He goes somewhere else, is labeled a traitor by the Columbus fans, and seen as a mercenary by everyone else.

I don't want to use the Lebron comparison because it doesn't fit all too well (better player on a better team) but it's the same principle.

That is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read but regardless if he's such a big pussy that he's worried about that who the hell would want him? If he's that sensy he will get eaten up in a market that actually gives a shit.

You know, no one actually SAID he was a pussy but if you've got the ball I guess you gotta run with it

*ahem*

[Tex]

LW Loui Eriksson, bitches. Feel the need for Swede.

[Alitaki]

LW Loui Eriksson, bitches. Feel the need for Swede.

It's not working dude, give it up.

[TeamStewie]

He was sort of in a no win situation. He either stays home, shows his commitment to the franchise, and gets labeled a guy who doesn't want to win

Or,

He goes somewhere else, is labeled a traitor by the Columbus fans, and seen as a mercenary by everyone else.

I don't want to use the Lebron comparison because it doesn't fit all too well (better player on a better team) but it's the same principle.

That is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read but regardless if he's such a big pussy that he's worried about that who the hell would want him? If he's that sensy he will get eaten up in a market that actually gives a shit.

You know, no one actually SAID he was a pussy but if you've got the ball I guess you gotta run with it

*ahem*

It's called a hypothetical. Look it up. The word "if" might give you a clue.

This post has been edited by TeamStewie: Feb 14 2012, 09:19 AM

[leetchie69]

Only way I go along with this is if Columbus throws in Fedor Tyutin!!

[Sed]

LW Loui Eriksson, bitches. Feel the need for Swede.

It's not working dude, give it up.

He's trying to make 'fetch' happen.

[Tex]

Do I look like a quitter?
I have been convinced by much of the above that Nash is not the answer, but a less-invasive (from the locker room standpoint) option could be a very good LW who already plays a tight D-first system.
*shrug*

[Melvin]

The fact that Columbus is going to get completely fleeced on any trade they make makes it entirely likely that Sather will figure out a way to trade for Nash and Carter while only giving up the likes of Avery (must agree to bring new clothes for the team as they are without shirts or shoes), 10 public appearances by Adam Graves and Mark Messier (without tears, those are extra), and the corpse of Wade Redden - which on the Blue Jackets would slot in as the 3rd D and 2nd power play unit QB.

[toph]

Do I look like a quitter?
I have been convinced by much of the above that Nash is not the answer, but a less-invasive (from the locker room standpoint) option could be a very good LW who already plays a tight D-first system.
*shrug*

Eriksssson!

[Andy from the LE...]

Do I look like a quitter?
I have been convinced by much of the above that Nash is not the answer, but a less-invasive (from the locker room standpoint) option could be a very good LW who already plays a tight D-first system.
*shrug*

I totally hear ya.

$10 says Slats either:

1) gets some low key, off-the-radar dude no one was expecting for, like, some 6th round pick.

2) or Carter/Nash for a draft pick and a used puck bag.

[jkman61494]

You can make an argument for and against this trade, but I think it's very fair to say if it were made, Marian Gaborik would not be a New York Ranger in a few years.

The only thing that confuses me is there are those complaining about the fact he only likes playing in obscure markets and doesn't want to play in the spotlight of New York.

While he hasn't exactly lit up the lamp, or helped others light up a lamp, I thought Brad Richards admitted that he was nervous about playing in a big market, but that didn't stop people from slobbering all over him.

I know the locker room chemistry is huge, but removing one guy from the roster I don't believe would be a disaster. The thing I hate most is the fact we'd almost certainly lose Gaborik eventually.


Not Nash related, but I am kind of surprised there haven't been more rumors about Sam Ganger who may be available. He's a veteran 22 and Edmonton is a team that's going to be looking for prospects, not even necessarily current roster players.

[Charlie]

That is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever read but regardless if he's such a big pussy that he's worried about that who the hell would want him? If he's that sensy he will get eaten up in a market that actually gives a shit.

Wait, what? Are you honestly trying to argue that people wouldn't have viciously criticized him for leaving Columbus? I'm not saying in any way shape or form that it affected his decision. I'm saying that no matter what decision he made people would shit on him.

Aside from all that he is still the captain and yet it took Vinnie Prospal all of a month to actually show some leadership and comment on what a clusterfuck that team is. It's not one specific thing with him but a whole lot of little things that don't add up to a good picture.

Calling out your team in the media and being a good leader are not correlated. Timmonen is getting eaten alive by Philly fans for calling out Bryz after a recent loss to the Rangers, then calling out the team defense after the most recent one.

I would much rather have a captain who performs on the ice than one who is always ready with something to say to the media.

I literally had no real opinion on Nash before this argument started, but he is getting wayy too much shit for being on a horrifically run franchise.

[jkman61494]

Also, Nash played under the biggest spotlight possibly imaginable. He was an Olympian playing a Gold Medal game against the U.S. in Vancouver with his entire country watching.

He played on an important line with Toews, who I believe was the tournament's MVP. It's not like this guy is completely against playing in high pressure situations.

I'm still not necessarily advocating this trade being made. But like Charlie is saying, I think it's unjust to criticize him for being in a market. Some players just can't win. You're hated for staying on a bad team and don't care about winning, but when you leave said team, you're criticized for not willing to stay for the long haul.

[Dr. D]

He hasn't score 40 goals in his past three seasons, and one of those 40-goal seasons was in his second year. He's absolutely responsible for Columbus being the worst franchise in hockey, and he's now outright quitting on the team. He's not in good shape. He's being outscored this season by Ryan Callahan. But my favorite part is the whole idea that he's going to mesh with the talent already on the team, a myth that has been so thoroughly debunked by the history of the New York Rangers that I'm starting to think that most of you may not even watch the games but rather simulate them on your Playstation.

He's a talent and you can't not get talent when it's handed for you at ten cents on the dollar. But please don't kind yourself that he's a superstar in the league. He has accomplished nothing in the NHL in almost a decade.

I love that whenever a team struggles year after year, it's all because of the star player. You painted that nonsense picture with Ilya Kovalchuk, and now you're going to do it with Rick Nash.

It isn't the team's poor management, coaching, goaltending, or defense that's to blame for them being the worst team in the league. Nope, it's all Rick Nash, who's only been their leading scorer for all but two years since his rookie season. How do you think he's to blame, Brian? Do you think he draws penises on the whiteboard over their coach's game strategy? Does he loudly chew his Doritos in team meetings so the players have no idea what they're being told? Does he smoke a blunt with Steve Mason before every game?

I can understand you saying the guy could be underperforming and that is hurting his team. And I can understand not wanting to make a big move to trade for a guy like Nash. But to say, again, that one man is responsible for his team being the worst franchise in hockey because he's being outscored by a guy on a first place team and a claim that he isn't in good shape is pretty flimsy.

[HDH]

now theres a better chance Chris Kreider plays like Rick Nash in New York than Rick Nash would.

Benjamin, you have grown from from a snot nosed punk to one articulate, well-versed, knowledgeable mother fucker. *fist bump*



(We need a fist bump emoticon!)

[Dr. D]

now theres a better chance Chris Kreider plays like Rick Nash in New York than Rick Nash would.

Benjamin, you have grown from from a snot nosed punk

I'm not sure about that.

[HDH]

now theres a better chance Chris Kreider plays like Rick Nash in New York than Rick Nash would.

Benjamin, you have grown from from a snot nosed punk

I'm not sure about that.

NO he has. This is the same maroon that defended Tom Poti like he was Bobby Orr. You go, GREAT-ONE. *fist bump again*

[Alitaki]

It's called a hypothetical. Look it up. The word "if" might give you a clue.

My head is all stuffed up and I'm on very little sleep so I really am not in the mood to get into a semantics or logic debate with you on this so whatever. Carry on.