Rangerland Forum Information

[Charlie]

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/dani...-149758275.html

I think this deserves the biggest settlement in the history of lawsuits.

After days of being ignored, Chong said he tried to take his own life by breaking the glass from his spectacles with his teeth and then attempting to carve “Sorry mom,” on his arm. He said nurses also found pieces of glass in his throat, which led him to believe he ingested the pieces purposefully.


Chong said he could hear DEA employees and people in neighboring cells. He screamed to let them know he was there, but no one replied. He kicked the door, but no one came to get him.
By the time DEA officers found Chong in his cell Wednesday morning Chong was completely incoherent, said Iredale.

“I didn’t think I would come out,” Chong said.

He said when employees discovered him in the cell that they looked confused and nervous. A DEA employee rode with him to the hospital, where they paid for Chong’s visit.

He spent three days in the intensive care unit at Sharp Hospital and his kidneys were close to failing.

Source: DEA Ignored All My Cries: Student | NBC San Diego

[Hockey101]

A blank check.

[bloodorange]

Thanks, taxpayers!

[Nilan 666]

How about we hand over the DEA budget thus shutting them down in the process? Two problems solved, you're welcome.

[Beamer]

200M

[Dr. D]

$Texas.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I think people should lose their jobs and be held to criminal charges.

I'm not a huge fan of big lawsuits like this. It never sat right to me that a situation like this essentially becomes a winning lottery ticket.

20 million dollars? How does one even come up with a number like that? His medical bills were already paid, he's a college student so he doesn't have lost wages.

I know people will come at me for my opinion, but money isn't going too fix this poor kids problems. I'm not exonerating the guilty parties, I'm downright disgusted with the DEA and the situation, but this whole idea that being wronged in this country means you get money has never sat right with me.

If the idea is that it's a punishment to the DEA for their actions, again people should be fired and thrown in jail. Also, in claims like this, its not viewed criminally, correct? So it's not like a sentence being handed to the DEAs office.

None of us on these boards will ever ever ever see 20 million dollars in our lifetime, ever, so my question is, what is the justification for the large sum? Take lost wages, what's four years tuition there, about 40,000 a year? I went on the hi side and said he would make 50000 a year for 20 years which brings us to a million dollars, he'll you want to go 40 years? 2 million dollars.

2,160,000 and whatever his lost wages are. DEA paid for medical bills, and even if you factor in a lifetime of therapy your at what, maybe 5 million dollars?

20 million dollars is a completely fabricated number that has no basis other than, my client was wronged, but money doesn't fix the wrong. You want to award the kid something like a 6 million dollar settlement, I wouldn't bat an eyelash after everything I just outlined here. 20 million is ridiculous.

And before anyone says "you can't put a price on his days lost" well exactly, so don't make up numbers, and no amount of money is going to give him that time back.

[Beamer]

None of us on these boards will ever ever ever see 20 million dollars in our lifetime

Not with that kind of debbie downer thinking.

[jburns]

It's called negotiating. Of course, he is asking for $20M. The DEA will give him $10M under a confidential release. End of story.

[toph]

You get money because it's the only effective way to compensate someone who has been unfairly wronged by another. It's not a perfect system, but it makes sense in the larger scheme of things.

And the damages numbers are calculated. But they include physical injury, emotional injury, future effects, actual monetary damages, etc.

The government, aka American citizens, are going to compensate this kid for what government agents did to him.

The point is to make him as close to whole as possible, and money is really the only reasonable method we have available to us. Those people losing their jobs (possibly) or going to jail (really unlikely) doesn't do anything to compensate the kid who the wrong he suffered.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

The point is to make him as close to whole as possible, and money is really the only reasonable method we have available to us. Those people losing their jobs (possibly) or going to jail (really unlikely) doesn't do anything to compensate the kid who the wrong he suffered.

A kid was held unlawfully for 5 days which practically lead to his death, it should be handled criminally. "I forgot" is not an acceptable excuse in my opinion for them to "possibly" lose their jobs or not serve any kind of time.

It just drives me nuts that the very first thought when cases like this come up are "this kids gunna be rich" The priorities are so fucked up, and money will not make him even close to whole.

[toph]

The point is to make him as close to whole as possible, and money is really the only reasonable method we have available to us. Those people losing their jobs (possibly) or going to jail (really unlikely) doesn't do anything to compensate the kid who the wrong he suffered.

A kid was held unlawfully for 5 days which practically lead to his death, it should be handled criminally. "I forgot" is not an acceptable excuse in my opinion for them to "possibly" lose their jobs or not serve any kind of time.

It just drives me nuts that the very first thought when cases like this come up are "this kids gunna be rich" The priorities are so fucked up, and money will not make him even close to whole.

What do you want them to do? Nothing?

"Hey, this is how we compensate the civilly wronged. But money won't make you happy again, so you only get a little bit. Enjoy the rest of your scarred life."

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

The point is to make him as close to whole as possible, and money is really the only reasonable method we have available to us. Those people losing their jobs (possibly) or going to jail (really unlikely) doesn't do anything to compensate the kid who the wrong he suffered.

A kid was held unlawfully for 5 days which practically lead to his death, it should be handled criminally. "I forgot" is not an acceptable excuse in my opinion for them to "possibly" lose their jobs or not serve any kind of time.

It just drives me nuts that the very first thought when cases like this come up are "this kids gunna be rich" The priorities are so fucked up, and money will not make him even close to whole.

What do you want them to do? Nothing?

"Hey, this is how we compensate the civilly wronged. But money won't make you happy again, so you only get a little bit. Enjoy the rest of your scarred life."

I don't think "wrong' should equal "money" Lawsuits should cover damages, lawyer fees, lost wages, etc. "Psychological damages" equaling money is a concept I've always found to be utterly ridiculous. Give the kid 100 million thousand dollars, it doesn't fix a thing. That's my point.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

It's called negotiating. Of course, he is asking for $20M. The DEA will give him $10M under a confidential release. End of story.

The idea of "My client wants 20 million." "We'll give em 10!" "Sold" is ridiculous to me. That isn't justice, it's a business transaction and furthers my point that this is about a lawyer and a family trying to get a pay day more so than it is about righting a wrong.

[jburns]

It's called negotiating. Of course, he is asking for $20M. The DEA will give him $10M under a confidential release. End of story.

The idea of "My client wants 20 million." "We'll give em 10!" "Sold" is ridiculous to me. That isn't justice, it's a business transaction and furthers my point that this is about a lawyer and a family trying to get a pay day more so than it is about righting a wrong.

You don't think he deserves anything? Come on, you are being ridiculous.

[jburns]

It's called negotiating. Of course, he is asking for $20M. The DEA will give him $10M under a confidential release. End of story.

The idea of "My client wants 20 million." "We'll give em 10!" "Sold" is ridiculous to me. That isn't justice, it's a business transaction and furthers my point that this is about a lawyer and a family trying to get a pay day more so than it is about righting a wrong.

Okay, what is your solution. Go back in time? Jail the officers for life? Capital punishment? What?

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

It's called negotiating. Of course, he is asking for $20M. The DEA will give him $10M under a confidential release. End of story.

The idea of "My client wants 20 million." "We'll give em 10!" "Sold" is ridiculous to me. That isn't justice, it's a business transaction and furthers my point that this is about a lawyer and a family trying to get a pay day more so than it is about righting a wrong.

You don't think he deserves anything? Come on, you are being ridiculous.

I didn't say he should get nothing, come on you even responded to my post where I outlined what I felt was a reasonable request based on ACTUAL quantifiable numbers. Arbitrary numbers should not be assigned to wrongs committed.

ACTUAL numbers compensated for ACTUAL damages, I have no problem with.

[jburns]

Pain and suffering is an actual damage.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Pain and suffering is an actual damage.

How do you assign a number to that? It's completely arbitrary. How do you decide one persons "pain and suffering" is more or less than someone else?

This post has been edited by SorryaboutthatWhoa: May 3 2012, 01:50 PM

[Beamer]

Pain and suffering is an actual damage.

How do you assign a number to that? Now it's a punishment instead of a fair recouping of loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Pain and suffering is an actual damage.

How do you assign a number to that? Now it's a punishment instead of a fair recouping of loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

In that very article it mentions that punitive damages are normally brought about when you can prove intent as opposed to negligence, and there are already cases out there that show only a certain level of punitive damages can be accepted. Again, by my count your probably realistically at about 2 million. I don't think any court is going to assign an arbitrary lifelong salary to a student based on potential, this isn't MLB. The fact that the kid could've gotten a job at Target after school needs to be considered.

If the information in the article you linked is correct, you can go back to case law where a ratio of 4:1 in punitive damages is considered fair, which brings us to about 8 million, which is pretty close to what I was saying before. 10:1, which is 20 million, is largely considered unconsistutional.

Unless the article you linked to is incorrect. It is wikipedia after all so it's a pretty shitty source, right?

[Charlie]

Pain and suffering is an actual damage.

How do you assign a number to that? Now it's a punishment instead of a fair recouping of loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

In that very article it mentions that punitive damages are normally brought about when you can prove intent as opposed to negligence, and there are already cases out there that show only a certain level of punitive damages can be accepted. Again, by my count your probably realistically at about 2 million. I don't think any court is going to assign an arbitrary lifelong salary to a student based on potential, this isn't MLB. The fact that the kid could've gotten a job at Target after school needs to be considered.

If the information in the article you linked is correct, you can go back to case law where a ratio of 4:1 in punitive damages is considered fair, which brings us to about 8 million, which is pretty close to what I was saying before. 10:1, which is 20 million, is largely considered unconsistutional.

Unless the article you linked to is incorrect. It is wikipedia after all so it's a pretty shitty source, right?

I think you missed the part where he DRANK HIS OWN PISS AND ATE GLASS.

[Beamer]

Pain and suffering is an actual damage.

How do you assign a number to that? Now it's a punishment instead of a fair recouping of loss.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_damages

In that very article it mentions that punitive damages are normally brought about when you can prove intent as opposed to negligence, and there are already cases out there that show only a certain level of punitive damages can be accepted. Again, by my count your probably realistically at about 2 million. I don't think any court is going to assign an arbitrary lifelong salary to a student based on potential, this isn't MLB. The fact that the kid could've gotten a job at Target after school needs to be considered.

If the information in the article you linked is correct, you can go back to case law where a ratio of 4:1 in punitive damages is considered fair, which brings us to about 8 million, which is pretty close to what I was saying before. 10:1, which is 20 million, is largely considered unconsistutional.

Unless the article you linked to is incorrect. It is wikipedia after all so it's a pretty shitty source, right?

I think you missed the part where he DRANK HIS OWN PISS AND ATE GLASS.

And that this is an authority, not a peer.

[jburns]

Actually, punitive damages are over and above actual damages (i.e. pain and suffering, physical injury, mental anguish, etc.)

[toph]

The problem is that $2 million in compensatory damages is just unrealistically low.

Also, "pain and suffering" damages are not punitive damages. They're actual damages, they're a tangible loss.

[jburns]

Also, "pain and suffering" damages are not punitive damages. They're actual damages, they're a tangible loss.

Great minds...

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Can anyone here prove intent as opposed to negligence, or is that a false wikipedia idea? I'm genuinely asking.

[Beamer]

Can anyone here prove intent as opposed to negligence, or is that a false wikipedia idea? I'm genuinely asking.

Note it says "usually," and it varies by state, but most states that restrict it do so for intentional, fraudulent or grossly negligent conduct.
I believe this fits "grossly negligent."

There's a push for actual malice, but I doubt it will catch on. And large awards tend to show up when actions are severely offensive and when damages are difficult to prove (like they are here.)