Rangerland Forum Information

[Lester Patrick]

Students at F-rated Gibbs High heard some stark new rules Thursday morning.

Cell phone on? Will be confiscated.

Droopy drawers? Will be zip-tied.

Fighting? Expect pepper spray.

Administrators emphasized the changes at a couple of student assemblies, intent on setting a strict new tone for a school that must turn things around soon or face the prospect of state-ordered restructuring.

The ninth-graders in the first assembly listened politely. But there was a fair amount of grumping among the 10th-graders in the second assembly.

"It's a whole lot different. It's bad," said 10th-grader Alissa Lingo. "We can't chew gum. We can't do anything. It feels like we're back in elementary school."

"They need to let us have fun," said James Wiggins, another sophomore.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12...icle1031509.ece

[jebart]

Who has to zip tie the droopy drawers is what I want to know.

This post has been edited by jebart: Aug 27 2009, 04:36 PM

[TheAnaconda]

In my high school, cell phones and beepers were taken if they were seen, regardless if they were on or not. We were also never allowed to chew gum, and if you tried to so much as leave the building, let alone run to your car to get something, you were suspended for a minimum of one day.

[Dr. D]

We had the same rules at my high school. Cell phones were taken, pants couldn't be sagging. We could chew gum, though. I thought it was pretty standard and fair. These G's need to toughen up.

[Bleedin-Blue]

Remember the days of high school before cell phones, beepers and anything besides a Game Boy? All we did was abuse the hall pass privileges and maybe smoke in the bathrooms. Fuckin' kids these days. Pull up your damn pants you little shitheads.

[Das Hans]

Fuckin' kids these days.

Maybe the schools ought to be worrying more about teaching and less about enforcing dress codes. The problem is that it's easy to tell someone to pull up their pants, but it takes a lot more skill and hard work to teach someone English or critical thinking skills.

Cutting lines in the cafeteria
1st offense – reprimand/clean up
2nd offense – administrative detention
3rd offense – work detail
4th offense – cafeteria privileges provoked

Uh-hu. That doesn't mean what they think it does.

[Nilan 666]

What no tasers?

[Pymonte]

Remember the days of high school before cell phones, beepers and anything besides a Game Boy? All we did was abuse the hall pass privileges and maybe smoke in the bathrooms. Fuckin' kids these days. Pull up your damn pants you little shitheads.

You're on the right?

[Giac]

Then I must be on the left.....Stay off my lawn, you damn kids!

[leedsy99]

Maybe the schools ought to be worrying more about teaching and less about enforcing dress codes.

I'm 100% in favor of what should be a national law requiring uniform dress codes in school. It in theory eliminates distraction, in theory helps to curb classism, and in theory encourages rule-compliance through a non-arbitrary policy. In theory it should work, because you start every single day by having to follow the rules. Schools should be institutions. In theory learning to obey the rules will make the school safer and more efficient. In theory a safer and more efficient workplace will encourage more qualified candidates to want to work there. Better schools will have better employees that produce better students. In theory.

[Hockey101]

Well....i am in favor of dress codes. Down here the public school that is close to me, Spanish River High, is full of rich bitch guys driving daddy's BMW, or Benz, and then they get expensive cars once they get the license, and of course the clothing line all hip and expensive, yet you then see a separate group of kids walking away going to their moms in the minivans or lower end cars with a t-shirt, shorts, and sneakers probably from Wal Mart. A fine line of separatism and i can't stand kids that pull that shit off.

My high school was very small in Jersey, and we were between 35-40 in my class, but we were only in groups of the typical trends in schools, the jocks, the geeks, the weirdos, and so on. Yet, everyone always got excited when someone got his, or her, car and it could have been a beat down used 80's Buick or the Audi A4, but they were both cool. I guess maybe it might have been the school size that led us to be more united than other big schools, but no one showed any superiority over any one else, outside of academics of course with the honor students and the slackers.

I think a few of us had cell phones, i wasn't one of them even though i badly wanted that big looking Nokia cell that my brother had since he was in college at the time.

Those were the good days....

But yeah, i think it's ridiculous to see social classism in schools, especially public schools.

A friend of my mom's had had Land Rover at the dealership to get fixed up so they gave her a Rav4 or a CR-V, i forgot what it was, but her kid actually had the nerves to tell her to stop one block before the school so no one would see him be in that car.

Man, if that kid was my son i'd smack him around.

[Dr. D]

I don't get the big deal with uniforms and what not. I don't think they'd fix as many problems as people say they would. Kids who wear uniforms in school still get in fights, still drink, still do drugs, and still cause trouble just as much as kids who wear what they want to school. Making kids look the same on the outside doesn't change who they are on the inside or what they're going to do inside or outside of school.

[Hockey101]

I don't get the big deal with uniforms and what not. I don't think they'd fix as many problems as people say they would. Kids who wear uniforms in school still get in fights, still drink, still do drugs, and still cause trouble just as much as kids who wear what they want to school. Making kids look the same on the outside doesn't change who they are on the inside or what they're going to do inside or outside of school.

Absolutely true, but it eliminates social class superiority, which i think hurts the environment of the school and possibly hinder the academics of some. I mean, a rich kid who has Polo, Abercrombie (i hate that clothing line), and has a Rolex, and expensive Nikes, wouldn't sit next to a kid that has cheap clothing and is evidently a much "lower" class. Or, you can't hang out with these kids because they are too rich.

I think it CAN help. I don't think it's a certainty, but i've had a good experience with it....... i really hated the tie though. That thing was made out of cardboard. Loved it when it was April and we got to wear the school's polo shirts.

[Dr. D]

Absolutely true, but it eliminates social class superiority, which i think hurts the environment of the school and possibly hinder the academics of some. I mean, a rich kid who has Polo, Abercrombie (i hate that clothing line), and has a Rolex, and expensive Nikes, wouldn't sit next to a kid that has cheap clothing and is evidently a much "lower" class. Or, you can't hang out with these kids because they are too rich.

I think it CAN help. I don't think it's a certainty, but i've had a good experience with it....... i really hated the tie though. That thing was made out of cardboard. Loved it when it was April and we got to wear the school's polo shirts.

I think people really overblow this "social class superiority" when it comes to what kids wear in school. Look, even if you dress these kids the same, do you think Richard H. Wells III is going to sit next to Jamal when he hears him talk about gettin' down wit his bitch the night before? I know I'm being over stereotypical here, but it's the truth. Kids are going to separate into their own cliques regardless of what their classmates are wearing. My two best friends went to high schools that required them to wear polos and khakis or a set uniform every day. But wouldn't you know, they still had the jocks, geeks, skaters, stoners, preps, etc. just like my non-uniform high school did.

People who are in favor of uniforms have forgotten that they are talking about high school students who will separate into cliques regardless of any rules or regulations their school has. It's the nature of our culture. Uniforms can do nothing to change that.

[Kusand]

People who are in favor of uniforms have forgotten that they are talking about high school students who will separate into cliques regardless of any rules or regulations their school has. It's the nature of our culture. Uniforms can do nothing to change that.

I wanted to be the one to write this post.

[Hockey101]

I think people really overblow this "social class superiority" when it comes to what kids wear in school. Look, even if you dress these kids the same, do you think Richard H. Wells III is going to sit next to Jamal when he hears him talk about gettin' down wit his bitch the night before? I know I'm being over stereotypical here, but it's the truth. Kids are going to separate into their own cliques regardless of what their classmates are wearing. My two best friends went to high schools that required them to wear polos and khakis or a set uniform every day. But wouldn't you know, they still had the jocks, geeks, skaters, stoners, preps, etc. just like my non-uniform high school did.

People who are in favor of uniforms have forgotten that they are talking about high school students who will separate into cliques regardless of any rules or regulations their school has. It's the nature of our culture. Uniforms can do nothing to change that.

I had the jocks, druggies, and so forth as well, but i remember our rich classmate would even play with Chrstian from Dover(ito).

There's a difference between the school groups and social class groups. When i saw Spanish River while driving in front of it every day for my undergrad, i was looking at things i've never seen before. I mean,..........it's insane. The daughter of a friend of my mom, and i guess she is somewhat a friend too, mostly family friend, but she went to school with Juicey Couture and other expensive shit, a line of expensive jeans which boggles my mind as to how stupid people are nowadays to pay so much money for a pair of jeans, and wouldn't even think about hanging out with "lower" class students. She was pissed at her dad giving her a Volks Jetta because it was a safe car for her. She wanted the Audi TT. The Jetta was "such a loooser car".

I think it's ridiculous. If all kids wear the same things, then there wouldn't be competition of who is wearing what at school. I don't think it's fair for a kid to see a classmate wearing at least $300 worth of clothing and that kid can only dream of it.

I think present day has gotten worse than the past, though. Was it like this at your schools as well? I can even go as far back as like....4th grade or so when we competed on who had the coolest GI Joe, yet i think nowadays it's who has the coolest cell phone.

[Dr. D]

I had the jocks, druggies, and so forth as well, but i remember our rich classmate would even play with Chrstian from Dover(ito).

There's a difference between the school groups and social class groups. When i saw Spanish River while driving in front of it every day for my undergrad, i was looking at things i've never seen before. I mean,..........it's insane. The daughter of a friend of my mom, and i guess she is somewhat a friend too, mostly family friend, but she went to school with Juicey Couture and other expensive shit, a line of expensive jeans which boggles my mind as to how stupid people are nowadays to pay so much money for a pair of jeans, and wouldn't even think about hanging out with "lower" class students. She was pissed at her dad giving her a Volks Jetta because it was a safe car for her. She wanted the Audi TT. The Jetta was "such a loooser car".

I think it's ridiculous. If all kids wear the same things, then there wouldn't be competition of who is wearing what at school. I don't think it's fair for a kid to see a classmate wearing at least $300 worth of clothing and that kid can only dream of it.

I think present day has gotten worse than the past, though. Was it like this at your schools as well? I can even go as far back as like....4th grade or so when we competed on who had the coolest GI Joe, yet i think nowadays it's who has the coolest cell phone.

I went to a middle class school, so I didn't witness the extravagance you describe (and I agree that the excess of my generation is ridiculous), but I understand what you're saying. However, the "fairness" issue you bring up is silly. You act like some of these lower class kids have never seen someone more fortunate than them before! Do you want the rich kids to not drive their Audis and BMWs because it's "not fair" to the kids who are driving beat up Chevys? Do you want them to not use their Blackberries and iPhones in school because it's "not fair" to the kids who can't afford a fancy cell phone?

Your last sentence proves my point. Even if kids have to wear the same thing every day, they'll still find something to compete about and use it to segregate themselves. If it's not clothes, it's a car or a cell phone or an iPod or jewelry or hair or whatever. Kids aren't dumb; they can figure out who the rich snobs are and who's living in the hood just by talking to them for five minutes. Again, because uniforms don't change who's on the inside of those clothes. It is inevitable that kids are going to separate themselves, and one of the biggest factors will be social class.

[Nilan 666]

Personally I find the pepper spray the most disturbing part here. It's only a hop skip and jump to letting kids be tasered, at least until a few die since those things aren't really that non-lethal.

[Pymonte]

I don't get the big deal with uniforms and what not. I don't think they'd fix as many problems as people say they would. Kids who wear uniforms in school still get in fights, still drink, still do drugs, and still cause trouble just as much as kids who wear what they want to school. Making kids look the same on the outside doesn't change who they are on the inside or what they're going to do inside or outside of school.

Having been in a school that required uniforms...

They don't prevent all of the aforementioned problems, people will form cliques and get political no matter what. What they do, very effectively, is break down a lot of the standards that people are judged by when people go by first impressions. There's a more genuine period of feeling people out when there's a tangible reminder that we're all people, instead of (insert social group here), and that leads to more of an underpinning of respect between social groups and more people breaking out of them. There were really very few conflicts in school for the amount of people that were there.

So essentially, they're not a silver bullet, but can be very useful as part of a more disciplined system.

[jebart]

One of the districts here got a new superintendent and school uniforms were part of her plan.

The parents freaked. They started screaming about discouraging individualism, curtailing creativity, having cookie cutter kids - and their biggest argument was that if they wanted to send their kids to Catholic school, they would have.

And that was that.

[Tex]

They started screaming about discouraging individualism, curtailing creativity, having cookie cutter kids

pffft. If they think uniforms (or at least a limited dress code) would cause that, they might wanna look into how every day is Self Esteem Day, now. Nobody ever fails, they just get to try again! And Yay! Today, Robbie stood outside, pointed to the sky and said, "Air pain!" Christ, the kid's 14 years old!

At my kids' school, they took the "track" out of track and field day. No more competitions. There are a dozen unskilled, no-loser "events". Everybody gets a ribbon, no matter that they suck. The gifted kids can't excel and the less talented will never strive to be better. It pissed me off.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

They started screaming about discouraging individualism, curtailing creativity, having cookie cutter kids -

I guarantee these same parents have voted down school budgets that forced the district to cut the music and art programs...

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

The point not being made about school uniforms is that it helps focus solely because it's one less things kids have to worry about the morning of or nigh before school.

There's no "what am I going to wear?" Your going to wear this.

If I was a kid, I'd hate it, but if I was a parent, I certainly wouldn't be screaming about it at school board meetings.

Less money to spend on clothes

[Puckforbrains]

My daughter just started school this week where they have all the kids (K-5) where polos/skirts/dresses/pants - all have to be either khaki, navy blue, burgundy, red, or white. This is a public school that stresses arts, civics and music along with the basics - I have no issues with the dress code whatsoever. I do not think it will discourage creativity/individuality, etc. I also do not think it will create cookie cutter kids - these kids still have personalities and will still have lives outside of school - its up to the parents to keep them involved in activities outside of school that continue to shape them.

Also not a fan of 'no-winner' sports and games - life has losses, life has tragedy - they need to learn that life can be disappointing and they need to know how to deal with these situations.

[Puckforbrains]

The point not being made about school uniforms is that it helps focus solely because it's one less things kids have to worry about the morning of or nigh before school.

There's no "what am I going to wear?" Your going to wear this.

If I was a kid, I'd hate it, but if I was a parent, I certainly wouldn't be screaming about it at school board meetings.

Less money to spend on clothes

Oh contrare monfrare - we end up spending more because we still have to purchase clothes she wears after school and on the weekends, plus you have to buy clothes throughout the year when they outgrow them.


My daughter loves picking out clothes she wears to school the night before - of course she's in kindergarten, so I suspect this will change in the next few years.

[Tex]

My daughter loves picking out clothes she wears to school the night before - of course she's in kindergarten, so I suspect this will change in the next few years.

yes. it will. This morning, my 9 year old strolled out of her room and announced that she was wearing capris today. She took some cotton stretchy-pants and folded/rolled them up to capri height. I just facepalm and say, "Get in the car, please." Not worth the battle.

[jebart]

Absolutely true, but it eliminates social class superiority, which i think hurts the environment of the school and possibly hinder the academics of some. I mean, a rich kid who has Polo, Abercrombie (i hate that clothing line), and has a Rolex, and expensive Nikes, wouldn't sit next to a kid that has cheap clothing and is evidently a much "lower" class. Or, you can't hang out with these kids because they are too rich.

I think it CAN help. I don't think it's a certainty, but i've had a good experience with it....... i really hated the tie though. That thing was made out of cardboard. Loved it when it was April and we got to wear the school's polo shirts.

Total agreement with bolded section. I've got a 12 yo nephew whose friends will only wear select brands, Abercrombie being #1. That fucking store makes me crazy. I won't let my kid go in there. WTF with the model team (the pretties who work the sales floor) vs. the stock room team (the fugs who didn't make the cut). I was glad when the chick in Britain who had only one arm won a discrimination suit against the company. They made her wear a sweater over her uniform to cover the prosthetic arm, then told her she couldn't work on the sales floor because the sweater violated the dress code. Shitheads.

My kid has a bunch of Ed Hardy shirts, but once that douchebag with all the kids got involved with Audigier, that was a done deal.

[Scuubs]

I had the jocks, druggies, and so forth as well, but i remember our rich classmate would even play with Chrstian from Dover(ito).

There's a difference between the school groups and social class groups. When i saw Spanish River while driving in front of it every day for my undergrad, i was looking at things i've never seen before. I mean,..........it's insane. The daughter of a friend of my mom, and i guess she is somewhat a friend too, mostly family friend, but she went to school with Juicey Couture and other expensive shit, a line of expensive jeans which boggles my mind as to how stupid people are nowadays to pay so much money for a pair of jeans, and wouldn't even think about hanging out with "lower" class students. She was pissed at her dad giving her a Volks Jetta because it was a safe car for her. She wanted the Audi TT. The Jetta was "such a loooser car".

I think it's ridiculous. If all kids wear the same things, then there wouldn't be competition of who is wearing what at school. I don't think it's fair for a kid to see a classmate wearing at least $300 worth of clothing and that kid can only dream of it.

I think present day has gotten worse than the past, though. Was it like this at your schools as well? I can even go as far back as like....4th grade or so when we competed on who had the coolest GI Joe, yet i think nowadays it's who has the coolest cell phone.

This isn't social class superiority, it's being a spoiled bitch. And wearing a uniform isnt going to stop that because it lands squaring on her parents shoulders for handing her whatever she wants, whenever she wants.

[Puckforbrains]

The parents are to blame for how children are acting these days. I would much rather have been punished by the school than have to go through being disciplined by my parents. These days the parents support their kids, right or wrong and blame the schools.

[Puckforbrains]

" I want an Oompa Loompa Daddy, I want an Oompa Loompa NOOOOOOOOOW"

[leedsy99]

I guarantee these same parents have voted down school budgets that forced the district to cut the music and art programs.

That's why I'm always disturbed by the response to school uniforms as curtailing individualism. When I was in high school probably the best thing I ever read was Emerson's "Self-Reliance." The form of self-reliance that Emerson rightfully and poetically encourages involves one of thought: think first, think as an individual, then act and create. Dressing the way that the video commericals on MTV etc. tell you to dress is the exact opposite of Emerson's principles, and no single organism on the entire planet is more susceptible to the pressure of advertising than an adolescent or teenager. If you think that you embody the principles of self-reliance through the clothes you wear at school, you are wrong.

In fact, I think Emerson's principles are more soundly encouraged with school uniforms, because with outward appearance moving toward neutrality, people actually have to form unique personalities in order to stand out (if not outright survive).

I didn't mean to suggest that school uniforms was going to put an end to cliques. That's what high school is about. But it will curb classism by ending fashion as a form of competition. Students of modest means won't feel like crap every day because they can't afford the things worn by classmates. When I was a retard in junior high, nothing was more important than what kind of sneakers you wore. That is the kind of thing that should change.

[Sed]

I almost used this as one of my topics for research proposals for my undergrads this semester - there's actually been a pretty decent body of work done on this very topic.

EDIT: I'd find a few, but our damned server's been down all day. On the plus side, no e-mails from students asking if they can sign into my classes.

This post has been edited by Sed: Aug 28 2009, 11:55 AM

[Dr. D]

Again, if kids don't have clothes to compete over, they will find other means. Cars, cell phones, iPods, etc., etc., etc. Every day the lower class kids will still feel like crap because they had to ride the school bus and Cindy is driving an Audi home. They'll feel like crap because Joey has an iTouch and they can only afford a Walkman. Uniforms will only give the impression that classissm is being curbed, when really nothing has changed. The stuck up rich kids will still look down on the kids on welfare no matter how you dress them, and competition over material goods will still exist because it is the nature of our culture.

[Puckforbrains]

Again, if kids don't have clothes to compete over, they will find other means. Cars, cell phones, iPods, etc., etc., etc. Every day the lower class kids will still feel like crap because they had to ride the school bus and Cindy is driving an Audi home. They'll feel like crap because Joey has an iTouch and they can only afford a Walkman. Uniforms will only give the impression that classissm is being curbed, when really nothing has changed. The stuck up rich kids will still look down on the kids on welfare no matter how you dress them, and competition over material goods will still exist because it is the nature of our culture.

It exists long after high school as well.

[Sed]

It exists long after high school as well.

There was an episode of DuckTales that addressed this subject quite nicely.

[Dr. D]

There was an episode of DuckTales that addressed this subject quite nicely.

As did Bret Easton Ellis' novel American Psycho. After seeing that Paul Owen has a much better business card than he does, Patrick Bateman decides to murder him with an axe.

[Sed]

As did Bret Easton Ellis' novel American Psycho. After seeing that Paul Owen has a much better business card than he does, Patrick Bateman decides to murder him with an axe.

This reminds me - I still haven't received my new business cards. Time for a killing rampage, I guess!

[LeNea]

Do you want them to not use their Blackberries and iPhones in school because it's "not fair" to the kids who can't afford a fancy cell phone?

No, I don't want them to use their Blackberries and iPhones in school because it's a *school* and they have absolutely no reason to be fiddling with distracting toys.

My high school banned cell phones from the building. If mommy and daddy insisted you needed one for your travel to and from school, you had to lock it in your car.

Kids have this misguided notion that school is there to be their overglorified babysitters as they manage their social lives. Nope. They are supposed to be at school getting an education, and if we let them grow up uneducated, when we are old we will be fucked. I'm very much in favor of uniforms, refusing to allow kids to carry a backpack around all day, and confiscating all electronic devices at the door. Set a tone. Social hour is not here. Cut the distractions, buckle down, and get to work.

[DetroitHockey]

As did Bret Easton Ellis' novel American Psycho. After seeing that Paul Owen has a much better business card than he does, Patrick Bateman decides to murder him with an axe.

That's bone.

[Puckforbrains]

That's bone.

psst..I'm old - wtf does that mean

[Sed]

psst..I'm old - wtf does that mean

Read/watch American Psycho.

[Dr. D]

No, I don't want them to use their Blackberries and iPhones in school because it's a *school* and they have absolutely no reason to be fiddling with distracting toys.

My high school banned cell phones from the building. If mommy and daddy insisted you needed one for your travel to and from school, you had to lock it in your car.

Kids have this misguided notion that school is there to be their overglorified babysitters as they manage their social lives. Nope. They are supposed to be at school getting an education, and if we let them grow up uneducated, when we are old we will be fucked. I'm very much in favor of uniforms, refusing to allow kids to carry a backpack around all day, and confiscating all electronic devices at the door. Set a tone. Social hour is not here. Cut the distractions, buckle down, and get to work.

I agree with not allowing cell phone use in school, but we all know it happens. Even if kids are only fiddling with their phones outside of the classroom before or after school, the competition still exists.

In reference to your last paragraph, where do you draw the line between cutting the distractions and being downright Orwellian? I really think people overblow the whole "distractions" thing. I have the attention span of a goldfish, but things like other people's clothes or their electronic devices never really distracted me from learning in high school. Hell, my biggest distractions were idle conversation with my friends or sleeping.

The real problem with schools (mostly public) is teachers who do not care. I had so many teachers in high school who couldn't have given less a shit if I learned anything in their class. Most of them let me sleep every other day in their class. As long as I did their homework and passed their laughable tests, they were content. This doesn't apply to all teachers, because I had plenty who cared deeply about their profession. However, apathy of the faculty, not clothes or electronics or anything else, is the biggest hindrance to learning. Consider the grade F school referenced in the beginning of this thread. Do you think half of the teachers there give a shit about those kids? Many of them hold predispositions about them because of their social class. "What do I care if Marcus learns about chemistry? He's not going to college anyway."

Implementing uniforms and stricter policies in the rulebooks in our schools is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb. You think it might help, but it doesn't address the real issues in American education.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

I agree with not allowing cell phone use in school, but we all know it happens. Even if kids are only fiddling with their phones outside of the classroom before or after school, the competition still exists.

In reference to your last paragraph, where do you draw the line between cutting the distractions and being downright Orwellian? I really think people overblow the whole "distractions" thing. I have the attention span of a goldfish, but things like other people's clothes or their electronic devices never really distracted me from learning in high school. Hell, my biggest distractions were idle conversation with my friends or sleeping.

The real problem with schools (mostly public) is teachers who do not care. I had so many teachers in high school who couldn't have given less a shit if I learned anything in their class. Most of them let me sleep every other day in their class. As long as I did their homework and passed their laughable tests, they were content. This doesn't apply to all teachers, because I had plenty who cared deeply about their profession. However, apathy of the faculty, not clothes or electronics or anything else, is the biggest hindrance to learning. Consider the grade F school referenced in the beginning of this thread. Do you think half of the teachers there give a shit about those kids? Many of them hold predispositions about them because of their social class. "What do I care if Marcus learns about chemistry? He's not going to college anyway."

Implementing uniforms and stricter policies in the rulebooks in our schools is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb. You think it might help, but it doesn't address the real issues in American education.

This. I came from a school where I didn't really have to try hard, but I still learned a lot. Unfortunately I had some teachers that honestly didn't give a shit if the kids were learning. One of them knew he wasn't coming back, so everything from May on (we end in late June) was completely fucking impossible. It was an honors physics class, and some of the things he gave us were AP level material. And the other honors class had a teacher (who I had later for AP Chem) that was a-mazing. So they all loved Physics, and now I am permanently scarred because of my teacher.

[Dr. D]

Also, when kids get to college and see that you can wear basically whatever you want to class, carry your backpack literally everywhere you go, play with your phone all you want in your 200 person lecture hall, and don't even have to show up to class if you don't feel like it, they realize all the silly rules they had to follow in high school were completely irrelevant.

[Giac]

....Unfortunately I had some teachers that honestly didn't give a shit if the kids were learning.

I can almost understand this -- because most teachers could earn more as a barista at Starbucks than they can as teachers, and a Starbucks job won't require you to work for several years paying off college loans.

A huge part of the problem in this country is that we talk a big game when it comes to people needing/getting an education, but we don't deliver when it comes to fiscal support to make it a reality.

[beukes]

That's bone.

Raised lettering, pale nimbus... white.

[Tex]

Raised lettering, pale nimbus... white.

I miss the Lorax.

[LeNea]

The real problem with schools (mostly public) is teachers who do not care. I had so many teachers in high school who couldn't have given less a shit if I learned anything in their class. Most of them let me sleep every other day in their class. As long as I did their homework and passed their laughable tests, they were content. This doesn't apply to all teachers, because I had plenty who cared deeply about their profession. However, apathy of the faculty, not clothes or electronics or anything else, is the biggest hindrance to learning. Consider the grade F school referenced in the beginning of this thread. Do you think half of the teachers there give a shit about those kids? Many of them hold predispositions about them because of their social class. "What do I care if Marcus learns about chemistry? He's not going to college anyway."

Implementing uniforms and stricter policies in the rulebooks in our schools is like putting a band-aid on a severed limb. You think it might help, but it doesn't address the real issues in American education.

The faculty are apathetic because the teachers who do care quit after a year or two. I've watched countless friends burn themselves out trying to teach kids who have nothing better to do than yell "fuck you!" back at them. Seventh graders who can't add or subtract, much less multiply or divide. No discipline -> an environment in which even the most gifted and caring teacher will crash and burn.

[Puckforbrains]

The faculty are apathetic because the teachers who do care quit after a year or two. I've watched countless friends burn themselves out trying to teach kids who have nothing better to do than yell "fuck you!" back at them. Seventh graders who can't add or subtract, much less multiply or divide. No discipline -> an environment in which even the most gifted and caring teacher will crash and burn.

Parents to blame?

[Beamer]

Also, when kids get to college and see that you can wear basically whatever you want to class, carry your backpack literally everywhere you go, play with your phone all you want in your 200 person lecture hall, and don't even have to show up to class if you don't feel like it, they realize all the silly rules they had to follow in high school were completely irrelevant.

And then when you get a job, and realize that spending the previous 8 years dicking around, wearing what you want, acting how you want, playing on your cellphone and therefore developed no attention span or decent work habits they realize that all those silly rules would have helped them in the long run.