Rangerland Forum Information

[ree]

Yay Nashville won!

Sorry my friend, gotta look at this from a business standpoint. And also, because I hate Detroit.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

More utter bulls*t.

Backstrom gets 1 game. His crosscheck was frankly WORSE than Asham's, and he gets one game.

When it comes to the Matt Carkner's of the world, they are being given notice by the NHL that they can pretty much do anything they want to an opponent as long as it doesn't lead to a concussion.

Um, agree to disagree. Backstrom went for the chest, and his stick either rode up or pushed the other guy's stick into his face, in my viewings. A game works.

in your viewings has the NHL done anything wrong inthe last week or are you taking the don cherry approach?

[Kusand]

in your viewings has the NHL done anything wrong inthe last week or are you taking the don cherry approach?

Jesus, did you even read any of my posts lately? Or were you just like "oh man, this line'll be killer!"

[Mike B.]

We need a reset button on this board. I have no idea why some of you need to make your points by making unprovoked snide remarks and eye-rolling at other posters who are legitimately trying to debate. A lot of people here are upset about what's happened in the league in the last week or so, but there's no reason to let this forum devolve like that.

This post has been edited by Mike B.: Apr 17 2012, 10:39 PM

[Rocha]

What's the problems with the suspensions now? All this referee/league complaining is crazy. Hagelin elbowed Alfredson in the head and deserved to be suspended. 3 based on what came before him? No, seemed heavy at the time. 3 based on what came after him? Seems about right. Asham actually didn't even x-check the Flyer in the face, he got him in the high chest.

Asham slammed Schenn in the checst with his stick between both his hands and rolled it (because Schenn was falling down) from Schenn's chest, up his neck, into his chin. And we all know that's just a tickle to a hockey player. Did you actually watch the video or just gazed at it once?

Right, it was a dirty play and he got 4 games. That's the longest suspension yet, I believe. What did you want, a lifetime banning? Public hanging?

And actually, I rewound the video four times right after it happened. But that was a cute thing you said there.

Neal's play I didn't see.

No kidding.

Always good debating with you, Lisa!

The major problem I see is that Hagelin, a player with no discipline history, no reputation of violent infractions, and a player that rarely even commits a stick foul, gets 3 games while players WITH violent discipline histories get less. Arron Asham, multiple suspentions, gets only one more. There's no consistency to the suspentions other than if there was an injury sustained.

Do you really believe that Neal doesnt deserve more than 1 game simply because he got lucky that his xcheck didn't connect with Schenn's throat first? A high xcheck is an attempt to injure whether there is an injury or not.

As I said at the time, Hagelin's suspension seemed too big. 1, maybe even 2 seemed more appropriate. But now that they're handing out more severe suspensions, Hagelin's 3 games looks more like the start of the "more severe penalties" era rather than a weird outlier.

Also, you're getting the two mixed up. Asham was the one who almost xchecked a throat, not Neal.

I just can't see what's wrong with these suspensions. I just watched the Neal one now, maybe Neal could've gotten 2, but maybe Asham only deserved 3. It doesn't seem absurd either way.

It's really hard to know WTF they're thinking when it comes to suspensions, sometimes it seems like an injury is the most important factor and other times it doesn't seem like it matters at all. The NHL is having a real bad playoffs in terms of rules, suspensions and consistency. But I don't see how they screwed us and favored the Penguins.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

in your viewings has the NHL done anything wrong inthe last week or are you taking the don cherry approach?

Jesus, did you even read any of my posts lately? Or were you just like "oh man, this line'll be killer!"

I have, and it seems as though you've defended every single decision the NHL has made. Sure the done cherry thing was a line, and you can disagree with him as far as what happened in Philadelphia being great for the game, but at the same time, I feel games like that are happening because of the poor decision making by the NHL offices.

So the disconnect to me is I don't understand how you can disagree with what's happening on the ice while defending the NHL decisions, because I think poor refereeing and discipline is CAUSING the problems in the first place...

[Kusand]

I have, and it seems as though you've defended every single decision the NHL has made. Sure the done cherry thing was a line, and you can disagree with him as far as what happened in Philadelphia being great for the game, but at the same time, I feel games like that are happening because of the poor decision making by the NHL offices.

So the disconnect to me is I don't understand how you can disagree with what's happening on the ice while defending the NHL decisions, because I think poor refereeing and discipline is CAUSING the problems in the first place...

I have no idea what you're talking about. I accepted the Hagelin decision in a vacuum but was frustrated because of the awful Weber decision. I disagreed with Neal/Asham albeit arbitrarily, and hated the Carkner decision. I didn't think the Shaw hit warranted three games. It's like you're coming in swinging from an entirely different planet. Since you're already busy making up my opinions, feel free to make up my answer to you here as well, ok?

This post has been edited by Kusand: Apr 17 2012, 10:56 PM

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I have, and it seems as though you've defended every single decision the NHL has made. Sure the done cherry thing was a line, and you can disagree with him as far as what happened in Philadelphia being great for the game, but at the same time, I feel games like that are happening because of the poor decision making by the NHL offices.

So the disconnect to me is I don't understand how you can disagree with what's happening on the ice while defending the NHL decisions, because I think poor refereeing and discipline is CAUSING the problems in the first place...

I have no idea what you're talking about. I accepted the Hagelin decision in a vacuum but was frustrated because of the awful Weber decision. I disagreed with Neal/Asham albeit arbitrarily, and hated the Carkner decision. I didn't think the Shaw hit warranted three games. It's like you're coming in swinging from an entirely different planet. Since you're already busy making up my opinions, feel free to make up my answer to you here as well, ok?

Blah blah something about instant replay in baseball blah. No seriously, I wasn't coming in all that hot but I guess it came off that way so my bad. Moving on...

[leedsy99]

The major problem I see is that Hagelin, a player with no discipline history, no reputation of violent infractions, and a player that rarely even commits a stick foul, gets 3 games while players WITH violent discipline histories get less. Arron Asham, multiple suspentions, gets only one more. There's no consistency to the suspentions other than if there was an injury sustained.

But whether or not an injury was sustained is an important part of Shanahan's analysis. I really don't get all the drama and debate over these suspensions. So far, the most damaging consequence of a hit has been what Hagelin did to Alfredsson. "But did you see what Neal did to the Flyers!?!?" Yeah, he tried to run some guys, just like the Flyers try to run some guys when they get a chance. This is a contact sport. These guys really aren't delicate, and by and large the significant injuries come not from the standout plays by the seemingly innocent ones, like Hagelin's elbow. I like the injuries matter approach.

Do you really believe that Neal doesnt deserve more than 1 game simply because he got lucky that his xcheck didn't connect with Schenn's throat first?

That was Aaron Asham, who was suspended for the rest of the series as a result.

A high xcheck is an attempt to injure whether there is an injury or not.

As someone who has played hockey for 30 years, I find this to be 100% untrue. There is a difference between trying to hurt someone and trying to "injure" them. You come back from hurt -- the wound stings, maybe it leaves a mark, but you keep playing. Injury is an attempt to force a guy out. The only true intent to injure that I've seen this postseason was from Carkner, who targeted Boyle before the game started and attacked him in a way that, if I did that to a guy in a bar, I would be charged with a crime.

[ak996]

I think it can be argued that Neal and Weber tried to injure their opponents and not merely hurt them.

[jkman61494]

I think it can be argued that Neal and Weber tried to injure their opponents and not merely hurt them.

Absolutely.

Also, when a person takes a piece of lumber, and aims at a person's face or neck with a high degree of force, that is an intent to injure someone. Just like when you swing it like a baseball bat at someone's skull.



Back to hockey.


The Phoenix Coyotes prove yet again, that you shoot from ANYWHERE. Horrible angle shot that sneaks past Crawford. 3-2 OT winner... Ugly goal, Crawford awful, but that's what you do to win.

[ak996]

Horrible goal to end a good game.

[Nilan 666]

Ray Emery has to be stretching a bit more before game 4, that was just awful.

[Hockey101]

James Neal just got one game? I refuse to recognize that Shanahan was ever a Ranger. What dirty sons of bitches the NHL has that suck Penguins cock. Ridiculous. I hope the Flyers win. I really do. Fucking NHL trying to help the Penguins here. Fuck you.

[LisaLisa]

From Twitter:

Jesse Spector ‏ @jessespector
#Blackhawks Marian Hossa released from hospital, being monitored at home. Full recovery expected. Thank goodness.

[ree]

Thank goodness.

[Hockey101]

The good thing about the hit is that his head did not get full impact. So...he probably got the wind knocked out of him to an extreme and found it hard to breathe.

Torres gets 1 game, i guess. That's what Neal got. If not then i think Shanahan is just making shit up. Comparable hits do not get the same suspensions. That's Shanny's fault.

[Rocha]

James Neal just got one game? I refuse to recognize that Shanahan was ever a Ranger. What dirty sons of bitches the NHL has that suck Penguins cock. Ridiculous. I hope the Flyers win. I really do. Fucking NHL trying to help the Penguins here. Fuck you.

Asham got 4 games. The harshest suspension handed down yet, and it was on a play that didn't cause a (lasting) injury. You guys gotta stop leaving this important little nugget out of your "the league is in the tank for the Penguins" accusations.

I do think the league definitely favors the Penguins in terms of marketing. And not that they're supposed to feature all 30 teams equally, but they really do have the Pens far and away above every other team in that department. It's not good. They so badly want to be a superstar-focused league like the NBA and don't even seem to understand why it doesn't work the same way.

What should have Neal gotten, two games instead of one? More? Why? And if the NHL wants them to win so badly, wouldn't they have made sure one of their best players and the 4th best goal scorer in the league was in the lineup for their elimination game?

Torres gets 1 game, i guess. That's what Neal got. If not then i think Shanahan is just making shit up. Comparable hits do not get the same suspensions. That's Shanny's fault.

Torres' hit had someone leave the ice on a stretcher and go to the hospital. Neal's had Giroux stumble a little bit.

I don't think injuries should be the basis of suspensions, but it seems like they are. So Torres will get hammered while Neal gets 1 game.

[Scuubs]

The major problem I see is that Hagelin, a player with no discipline history, no reputation of violent infractions, and a player that rarely even commits a stick foul, gets 3 games while players WITH violent discipline histories get less. Arron Asham, multiple suspentions, gets only one more. There's no consistency to the suspentions other than if there was an injury sustained.

But whether or not an injury was sustained is an important part of Shanahan's analysis. I really don't get all the drama and debate over these suspensions. So far, the most damaging consequence of a hit has been what Hagelin did to Alfredsson. "But did you see what Neal did to the Flyers!?!?" Yeah, he tried to run some guys, just like the Flyers try to run some guys when they get a chance. This is a contact sport. These guys really aren't delicate, and by and large the significant injuries come not from the standout plays by the seemingly innocent ones, like Hagelin's elbow. I like the injuries matter approach.

Do you really believe that Neal doesnt deserve more than 1 game simply because he got lucky that his xcheck didn't connect with Schenn's throat first?

That was Aaron Asham, who was suspended for the rest of the series as a result.

A high xcheck is an attempt to injure whether there is an injury or not.

As someone who has played hockey for 30 years, I find this to be 100% untrue. There is a difference between trying to hurt someone and trying to "injure" them. You come back from hurt -- the wound stings, maybe it leaves a mark, but you keep playing. Injury is an attempt to force a guy out. The only true intent to injure that I've seen this postseason was from Carkner, who targeted Boyle before the game started and attacked him in a way that, if I did that to a guy in a bar, I would be charged with a crime.

I agree with your final point. I've done it also, an extra shot in the corner, digging my elbow into ribcages... at no point was I trying to injure someone, just make them think twice before coming to my side of the rink. To me though, a high cross check doesn't consistute just trying to hurt someone or intimidate them, that's an attempt to injure. I suppose the difference is a hit conciously directed at a vital, unprotected part of the body...Asham's (sorry, little mix up) high xcheck. Weber's head slam. Hagelin's hit could/should fall into that too, although it's been said by Hagelin, Shanahan, and Alfredsson that it wasn't thought to be intentional, but rather reckless. I really have more of a problem with the history issue. Suspension history is also supposed to be taken into account, but so far it has been ignored. Carkner gets a game for assaulting an unwitting opponent when he's done the same, and severely injured, another player. James Neal has been suspended once and given warnings twice, but only gets one game. At no point do you drive someone's head into a wall without trying to injure them. That's more that "fuck off you pest", but Weber got nothing, though I don't know if he's been suspended before. Asham, surprisingly, has never been suspended! I never would've thought that. I guess I just feel that history should take more precedent, or at least have as much credence as injuries. Injuries are supposed to be taken into account, not relied upon.

Btw, if you drove a pipe into someone's chest/ throat, you wouldn't be charged with a crime?

[Hockey101]

James Neal just got one game? I refuse to recognize that Shanahan was ever a Ranger. What dirty sons of bitches the NHL has that suck Penguins cock. Ridiculous. I hope the Flyers win. I really do. Fucking NHL trying to help the Penguins here. Fuck you.

Asham got 4 games. The harshest suspension handed down yet, and it was on a play that didn't cause a (lasting) injury. You guys gotta stop leaving this important little nugget out of your "the league is in the tank for the Penguins" accusations.

I do think the league definitely favors the Penguins in terms of marketing. And not that they're supposed to feature all 30 teams equally, but they really do have the Pens far and away above every other team in that department. It's not good. They so badly want to be a superstar-focused league like the NBA and don't even seem to understand why it doesn't work the same way.

What should have Neal gotten, two games instead of one? More? Why? And if the NHL wants them to win so badly, wouldn't they have made sure one of their best players and the 4th best goal scorer in the league was in the lineup for their elimination game?

Torres gets 1 game, i guess. That's what Neal got. If not then i think Shanahan is just making shit up. Comparable hits do not get the same suspensions. That's Shanny's fault.

Torres' hit had someone leave the ice on a stretcher and go to the hospital. Neal's had Giroux stumble a little bit.

I don't think injuries should be the basis of suspensions, but it seems like they are. So Torres will get hammered while Neal gets 1 game.

Who cares about Asham? If Asham did that to Couturier, not Neal, he would have gotten three games. Come on man, you know that. Since it is Neal, a key player for the Pens, he just gets one. And, he is a repeater.

Torres torpedoed Hossa and it was charging as it was slightly a late hit, not much though. You tell me what is worse. Neal aiming for Couturier's head, coming from a blind spot without any puck possession what so ever. Or, Raffi's? Hossa on a stretcher was precautionary. I wouldn't be surprised if he just misses a game if not any unless there is a concussion.

Neal should have gotten three. He only gets one because he is Neal and he is on the Penguins. That's it.

[Charlie]

Devils nation is in crisis right now.

Their tears... taste so good.

[Rocha]

Who cares about Asham? If Asham did that to Couturier, not Neal, he would have gotten three games. Come on man, you know that. Since it is Neal, a key player for the Pens, he just gets one. And, he is a repeater.

Torres torpedoed Hossa and it was charging as it was slightly a late hit, not much though. You tell me what is worse. Neal aiming for Couturier's head, coming from a blind spot without any puck possession what so ever. Or, Raffi's? Hossa on a stretcher was precautionary. I wouldn't be surprised if he just misses a game if not any unless there is a concussion.

Neal should have gotten three. He only gets one because he is Neal and he is on the Penguins. That's it.

If Hossa will be out for future games and Torres gets hit with a big 3+ game suspension, and at that point it does seem that the NHL determines suspension lengths based on injury and consequence, what then? Because if that's the case, it will look like they are following a system at least.

Although then Asham's 4 games actually sticks out as being unfair, ironically. Which totally goes against the notion of the league trying to help the Penguins win, but I digress.

Personally, I think suspensions should be based on intent and not injury. The way they do it now is stupid. The idea is to stop players from trying to hurt each other and making the league look like a psychotic freakshow at the same time, not whether or not players happen to get hurt. Neal's intent was as bad as Torres', but the result was far more mild. Again, I don't think this is how things should go, but it doesn't make it look like the league is doing the Penguins any favors, either. I fucking hate the Penguins, and I can't find a thing to be angry about here.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

Personally, I think suspensions should be based on intent and not injury. The way they do it now is stupid.

I think this is something the ENTIRE board can agree on.

I think Neal should have gotten 2-3 games, but then again Shanahan has come out and said that 1 playoff=2 regular season games multiple times. So a 4 game playoff ban is the equivalent of an 8 game regular season ban...

Also one last point, haven't a lot of senior refs retired in the past 2-3 years? As much as we railed on Bill McCreary he did have a long tenure in this league and knew how to stop this shit. If you have a lot of inexperienced guys letting them play, the players aren't going to stop because the league is so even due to parity. So the NHL doesn't have that bona fide guy that has been in the league reffing 20 years to get in there and stop the BS before it happens.

[scott03]

found this little nugget. if someone could remove asshat's face and put shanny on it.....

[scott03]

[Vonstadt]

The Devils blow a three goal lead...and at home...that made my night!

A fun game to watch it was.

As to the suspensions, I am fine with them, except for Neal. I watched the game and was enjoying it for the most part but the guy left his feet and the puck was no where near at the very least he got away with it on the ice and that was a MAJOR contributing factor to what soon followed on ice between the two teams.

The mere fact he took a run at two guys in 42 seconds there was INTENT and attempts to INJURE (leaving your feet on Coutie is charging and was a major league issue a few years back too much like the headshot crackdown). Coutie was blindsided, no where near the puck (Coutie was looking at the puck) and Neal left his feet....not incidental contact. He needed atleast one more game to satisfy my after two intentional runs at two seperate players.

Shanny is out of his gourd...bu do I see a Pens conspiracy? Nope...jut an incompetant making league decisions that are going to lead to more folks getting hurt or more games ending up unbalanced due to the lack of penalized consistantcy.

Ive been enjoying watching the first round of the playoffs and it's been fun. Am I outraged at Shanny? at his lack of consstency in his decisions?

Nah...just disgusted but hardly frothing at the mouth enraged.

The league needs to crackdown and realise for the most part Shanny's inconsistencies are making the League as a whole Look bad, and either see to it he has better guidelines than 'did someone get hurt' or get rid of Shanny and find someone with better common sense.

Anyways back to the 1st round for me...LGR!!!!

[Knight of Dight]

Y'know, with the way things have been going, the League needs to act fast before another Bertuzzi/Moore incident occurs. The players have zero faith in the system to protect themselves, so they are going out there and trying to enforce the rules themselves. Nothing good ever comes of that. It seems like every game now there is a disgraceful, dangerous hit that goes uncalled. Eventually, someone is going to get carried away and permanently maim another player.

[jkman61494]

I totally agree.

It's escalating, and now these hits and plays are getting worse. It started with Carkner and a bunch of brawls. Then you got crosschecks to the face. And now you are getting blind side hits that are getting players taking out on stretchers. It's getting worse and it's fully due to the league's incompetence on and off the ice.

[ak996]

The players have zero faith in the system to protect themselves, so they are going out there and trying to enforce the rules themselves. Nothing good ever comes of that.

And yet people continue to cry for the elimination of the instigator rule.

[Charlie]

I totally agree.

It's escalating, and now these hits and plays are getting worse. It started with Carkner and a bunch of brawls. Then you got crosschecks to the face. And now you are getting blind side hits that are getting players taking out on stretchers. It's getting worse and it's fully due to the league's incompetence on and off the ice.

Jesus dude, RELAX. I'm willing to bet these playoffs are going to be an outlier. Players didn't just wake up and decide they don't respect each other anymore. We have had an intense week. Things will return to the norm. Cross checks to the face happened long before this postseason, and will continue to happen long after. I mean, hell, is it that long ago that Matt Cooke was looking to concuss everyone and their mom with elbows?

I don't think the NHL has handled these playoffs all that well, but you are acting like we are facing unprecedented violence. The only players to be hurt on dirty plays are Alfredsson and Hossa. Alfredsson's was in no way intentional, and the hit on Hossa was ever so close to being clean. We are not in some area where players have lost all mutual respect and just looking to run guys.

[ree]

So Torres' hearing is "ASAP." Alrighty then.

[jkman61494]

The players have zero faith in the system to protect themselves, so they are going out there and trying to enforce the rules themselves. Nothing good ever comes of that.

And yet people continue to cry for the elimination of the instigator rule.

I think if they're going to have that rule, and 3rd man in's they need to actually enforce it.

Dubinsky's 3rd man in was one of the more minor instances of it seen in a long time and he gets tossed. Crosby goes and starts crap with about 5 different Philly players and somehow a different Penguin ended up engaging a Flyer until all there was left in the one case was Giroux and Sidney.

[Dunc]

Anyone read the Philadelphia Daily News?

[Knight of Dight]

I totally agree.

It's escalating, and now these hits and plays are getting worse. It started with Carkner and a bunch of brawls. Then you got crosschecks to the face. And now you are getting blind side hits that are getting players taking out on stretchers. It's getting worse and it's fully due to the league's incompetence on and off the ice.

Jesus dude, RELAX. I'm willing to bet these playoffs are going to be an outlier. Players didn't just wake up and decide they don't respect each other anymore. We have had an intense week. Things will return to the norm. Cross checks to the face happened long before this postseason, and will continue to happen long after. I mean, hell, is it that long ago that Matt Cooke was looking to concuss everyone and their mom with elbows?

I don't think the NHL has handled these playoffs all that well, but you are acting like we are facing unprecedented violence. The only players to be hurt on dirty plays are Alfredsson and Hossa. Alfredsson's was in no way intentional, and the hit on Hossa was ever so close to being clean. We are not in some area where players have lost all mutual respect and just looking to run guys.

Thus far, these have been the most violent playoffs in recent memory, though. Usually, players swallow their hatred for each other and try to make the other team pay on the scoreboard, instead of actively trying to injure the other team's players and risking putting their own team short-handed. Fighting was supposed to be one of those things that didn't occur much in the playoffs, on account of players caring more about winning the game.

This post has been edited by Knight of Dight: Apr 18 2012, 11:26 AM

[Tex]

Fighting was supposed to be one of those things that didn't occur much in the playoffs, on account of players caring more about winning the game.

yeah, but, when it's philthy/pixbutt, fack'em. Let'em fight.

[Dunc]

A good but sad read:

letter-to-nhl-owners

I like the way the author calls out the league for muzzling Shanny.

The kind of circus atmosphere around the current playoffs makes the jobs of hockey detractors everywhere just that much easier.

[ree]

The Yotes suspended Raffi indefinitely, his hearing is on the 20th. It was supposed to be today, but moved at the request of the NHLPA.

This post has been edited by ree: Apr 18 2012, 12:16 PM

[MaineRanger]

The Yotes suspended Raffi indefinitely, his hearing is on the 20th. It was supposed to be today, but moved at the request of the NHLPA.

The NHL website says the league suspended him, not the Yotes.
Weird, they must have some big plans for him and want to make sure it doesn't violate the players Union rights.

[leetchie69]

How is the Torres hit different than what Neal did?

*scratches head*

[Dunc]

How is the Torres hit different than what Neal did?

*scratches head*

To start with, Neal plays for the NHL, er... Pittsburgh... Penguins.

Also, Torres is the new Matt Cooke.

This post has been edited by Dunc: Apr 18 2012, 02:27 PM

[ree]

The Yotes suspended Raffi indefinitely, his hearing is on the 20th. It was supposed to be today, but moved at the request of the NHLPA.

The NHL website says the league suspended him, not the Yotes.
Weird, they must have some big plans for him and want to make sure it doesn't violate the players Union rights.

Well, the team is owned by the league yes? I was just going by what the RDS twitter said when they first made the announcement.

This will be interesting.

This post has been edited by ree: Apr 18 2012, 02:47 PM

[Knight of Dight]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Playo...7/19645666.html

Good article.

[Hockey101]

Meh..... makes me want to pull out a violin and play it.

[Knight of Dight]

Meh..... makes me want to pull out a violin and play it.

[TeamStewie]

[ak996]

Why the hell did they need to have both games tonight starting at 7:30? Couldn't they have staggered them and had one start at 7?

EDIT: Or 8 even?

This post has been edited by ak996: Apr 18 2012, 04:57 PM

[TeamStewie]

Stupid Ottawa always has 730 games

[ak996]

But the Flyers game could've been 7. Now I can't watch both! Damn you NHL. #NHLProblems

[Knight of Dight]

But the Flyers game could've been 7. Now I can't watch both! Damn you NHL. #NHLProblems

It actually is an NHL problem, because it translates into less ratings for BOTH games. Both series have huge markets, so it is most illogical to start them at the same time.

[Knight of Dight]

Also, I just LOVE that they're starting Schneider in Vancouver's elimination game.