Rangerland Forum Information

[Hockey101]

Frank the Commie!

Not going to look good once the mass media gets it out there. There's so much to learn about this guy, and Republicans are waiting for him the be picked and get ready to let it all out and play political games with all this stuff.

[Kusand]

Joesph Mc101!

[Sed]

The Freshmaker?

[TheAnaconda]

I will say this, Republicans are masters at avoiding real issues and keeping the focus on trivial things that really don't matter.

This post has been edited by TheAnaconda: Feb 21 2008, 09:50 AM

[RedHerring]

The Freshmaker?

No, the fruity one. Damn liberals and their gay sex.

[Muno]

I LOVE sites like this.

Here's a little excerpt from their "About" page:

How do you know the media are biased?

In addition to a number of major media surveys, The American Society of Newspaper Editors published a 1999 study that showed 78% of Americans said there is a news bias in the media.

Furthermore, not only do the overwhelming majority of citizens believe there is a bias, but they say that bias is overwhelmingly liberal. This, according to a 2003 poll conducted by the Princeton Review Research Associates for PEW Research Center for The People & The Press, shows a 2 to 1 margin of respondents believe their media coverage is slanted to the left.

The public seems to be correct.

That's right. If enough people you sample believe in something, then it is a fact.

[Hockey101]

I will say this, Republicans are masters at avoiding real issues and keeping the focus on trivial things that really don't matter.

Errr, we say the opposite. Dems love to do that too....

[Hockey101]

I LOVE sites like this.

Here's a little excerpt from their "About" page:
That's right. If enough people you sample believe in something, then it is a fact.

And what does this have anything to do with the fact that "Frank" was a commie and was Obama's mentor?

[Sed]

Joesph Mc101!

Sleep tight, America - HUACkey101 is on the case!

[xcheck24]

I LOVE sites like this.

Here's a little excerpt from their "About" page:
That's right. If enough people you sample believe in something, then it is a fact.

Even more fabulous that they cite one study that's almost a decade old and another that's five years old. I know PEW has done studies since then.

[rightbug]

Errr, we say the opposite. Dems love to do that too....

Agreed. For example, here's a major story about how John McCain was having an affair with a lobbiest and wrote several letters to various congressional committees on behalf of her clients.

This post has been edited by rightbug: Feb 21 2008, 11:37 AM

[RufusTFirefly]

What is so bad about being a socialist or a communist? They are just different political idealogical systems than the representative democracy that we employ. Personally I prefer out system of government to a socialist one but I can see the draw to these ideas. A perfect Communist state (which is against human nature which is the major flaw to Communism) is not such a bad thing. Imagine a world where everyone is working together for the greater good.

I guess the whole anti-communism thing has always annoyed me. It is not like Communism is inherently evil (though it does away with religion which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view) so I really do not see how this is a knock against Obama I guess or why other people should see it as a black mark.

[Hockey101]

Will D.C change its name to Obamingrad?

[Hockey101]

What is so bad about being a socialist or a communist? They are just different political idealogical systems than the representative democracy that we employ. Personally I prefer out system of government to a socialist one but I can see the draw to these ideas. A perfect Communist state (which is against human nature which is the major flaw to Communism) is not such a bad thing. Imagine a world where everyone is working together for the greater good.

I guess the whole anti-communism thing has always annoyed me. It is not like Communism is inherently evil (though it does away with religion which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view) so I really do not see how this is a knock against Obama I guess or why other people should see it as a black mark.

Errr, because communism has proven to be a total disaster in history, not to mention that amount of people that tried to escape and millions that died because of it?

[Kusand]

Will D.C change its name to Obamingrad?

I dunno. Can we get a pic of Mitt with 17 wives and 48 babies?

This post has been edited by Kusand: Feb 21 2008, 11:49 AM

[Hockey101]

I dunno. Can we get a pic of Mitt with 17 wives and 48 babies?

Can we make it 18 wives? I prefer even numbers.

[Alitaki]

Errr, because communism has proven to be a total disaster in history, not to mention that amount of people that tried to escape and millions that died because of it?

Re-read his post. He admits that human nature is a major flaw for Communism. Its not the system, its the people that run the system that mess things up. Our system isn't perfect either. So lets not get too big a head here and proclaim one to be evil, the other to be godly.

That's your problem you know. You will, almost every single time, go to the extreme in your judgements, characterizations, etc. Never any middle ground to you. The way your posts read, its as if it is impossible for you to even acknowledge that there may be better things out there than what you know/believe/accept/etc.

Shame.

[Beamer]

Errr, we say the opposite. Dems love to do that too....

It's all politicians do.

How often do they concentrate on pointless, stupid things and completely ignore any discussion about what they actually have direct influence over?

[Hockey101]

Re-read his post. He admits that human nature is a major flaw for Communism. Its not the system, its the people that run the system that mess things up. Our system isn't perfect either. So lets not get too big a head here and proclaim one to be evil, the other to be godly.

That's your problem you know. You will, almost every single time, go to the extreme in your judgements, characterizations, etc. Never any middle ground to you. The way your posts read, its as if it is impossible for you to even acknowledge that there may be better things out there than what you know/believe/accept/etc.

Shame.

Riiiiiiight.... and no one else has done the same here? Too bad i can't go back to Hockeybird.com message boards and rack up all the hate speech shit you guys came up with against Bush and his voters several years ago.

He said that there shouldn't be a big deal about communism, i say there should be because of its historical track record as a system that fails and is a detriment to civilization and society.

It's contradictory to say "it's not so bad, despite how it ruined society in its regimes".

Shame you didn't catch that?

[Beamer]

Its not the system, its the people that run the system that mess things up.

But when the only thing the system depends on is the people, aren't you splitting an unsplittable hair (or an inanimate carbon rod, if you will)?


Communism will never work because of the people.
People care primarily about themselves.
And people work only for immediate reward.

Capitalism puts that carrot on a stick in front of them.
It needs some socialism to balance out inherent flaws, but too much just fosters laziness. Too much in the wrong place is an awful, terrible thing.


But a true communist and/or socialist is usually as poorly thought-out as anarchists. Why would anyone want to put in long, hard hours doing a hard, tough job if not for the thought of a Ferrari in the driveway, or a house with a view, or even just a slightly bigger HDTV?

[Hockey101]

What is so bad about being a socialist or a communist? They are just different political idealogical systems than the representative democracy that we employ. Personally I prefer out system of government to a socialist one but I can see the draw to these ideas. A perfect Communist state (which is against human nature which is the major flaw to Communism) is not such a bad thing. Imagine a world where everyone is working together for the greater good.

I guess the whole anti-communism thing has always annoyed me. It is not like Communism is inherently evil (though it does away with religion which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view) so I really do not see how this is a knock against Obama I guess or why other people should see it as a black mark.

To further my answer to your last question....

It would be seen as a black mark because the majority of Americans do not approve of communism and Wall Street would poop in its pants if they find out how communist ideologies have affected Obama's ways of thinking.

[Kusand]

But when the only thing the system depends on is the people, aren't you splitting an unsplittable hair (or an inanimate carbon rod, if you will)?
Communism will never work because of the people.
People care primarily about themselves.
And people work only for immediate reward.

Capitalism puts that carrot on a stick in front of them.
It needs some socialism to balance out inherent flaws, but too much just fosters laziness. Too much in the wrong place is an awful, terrible thing.
But a true communist and/or socialist is usually as poorly thought-out as anarchists. Why would anyone want to put in long, hard hours doing a hard, tough job if not for the thought of a Ferrari in the driveway, or a house with a view, or even just a slightly bigger HDTV?

I think Taki (or at least his post through the lenses of my perception) is saying that there's a difference between wanting to implement communism and being able to admire the idealism in it. I certainly think Communism is a broken system that can't be implemented, but I can respect the notion of wanting to provide a comfortable baseline for all people. It's sort of like how I feel about universal healthcare - I think it's a travesty that there are people who don't have access to healthcare today, but I don't see how to have the government implement it sanely.

[Beamer]

Yeah, like we've discussed, government could never do it. And it infuriates me that so many people want them to. One of the few things that really pisses me off (along with stem-cell research.)

[Melvin]

Can I just interject somthing real quick...

I'm not sure what this article proves. If you want to label Obama as a Communist, then research his platform (yes, it's Wikipedia, but use the reference links at the bottom to really do the research for yourself). If you think he's a Communists then, fine. Don't just use this one report about a mentor of his.

My wife's uncle - who lived with her and her siblings for a while and with whom they had a pretty good, close relationship - turned out to be a pedophile who molested some kids. Does that mean my wife and her brothers and sisters are pedophiles, too?

Edit: Oh..and that site makes me chuckle. They are about "setting the record straight about slanted news coverage". But you look through all the articles and columns and it's all Republican or Conservative angles trying to push back Democrat and Liberal policies and people. Not that that's bad - that's how the two sides work - but the way they try to label themselves is pretty transparent.

This post has been edited by Melvin: Feb 21 2008, 12:27 PM

[Hockey101]

I never said anything to suggest that Obama is a commie, just joked around with his photo. But, his mentor of ideas and inspiration was a guy who was close to our old enemy, the Soviet Union. All i said was that it won't make him look good when the media and Republicans will play political games with it.

[Melvin]

I never said anything to suggest that Obama is a commie, just joked around with his photo. But, his mentor of ideas and inspiration was a guy who was close to our old enemy, the Soviet Union. All i said was that it won't make him look good when the media and Republicans will play political games with it.

Oh, c'mon now. I agree with the fact that now he'll have to defend himself (as stupid as the report is, he'll have to waste time addressing it) and the Republicans will be all over it. But I find it hard to believe that you didn't think that putting up a link to a story may cause some people to now question Obama. Even though the story has no real basis to question him?

[Alitaki]

I think Taki (or at least his post through the lenses of my perception) is saying that there's a difference between wanting to implement communism and being able to admire the idealism in it. I certainly think Communism is a broken system that can't be implemented, but I can respect the notion of wanting to provide a comfortable baseline for all people. It's sort of like how I feel about universal healthcare - I think it's a travesty that there are people who don't have access to healthcare today, but I don't see how to have the government implement it sanely.

Pretty much. I'm not defending communism nor calling for a change to it. Mainly I was reacting to 101's comment that "Communism" is somehow responsible for the millions of deaths in Russia at the hands of Stalin and his cronies. It is not the system, it is the people. Any system can cause pain and suffering to its people. How many people in our country are homeless or below the poverty line? How many people suffer due to lack of adequate health care?

Yeah, like we've discussed, government could never do it. And it infuriates me that so many people want them to. One of the few things that really pisses me off (along with stem-cell research.)

Then what purpose does government serve if not provide for its people? It should only be there to enforce laws and deal with other nations? By your logic, anyone who can't afford to keep up should just be left to die. Can't make money to pay for your health insurance? Too bad, try not to get sick.

Maybe i'm just an idealistic dreamer but how anyone in this country doesn't feel shame that as rich as this nation is we still have millions living in poverty is beyond me. But oh yeah, god forbid someone can't buy a $250K car or a $30 million dollar entire floor apartment on 5th avenue.

[RufusTFirefly]

To further my answer to your last question....

It would be seen as a black mark because the majority of Americans do not approve of communism and Wall Street would poop in its pants if they find out how communist ideologies have affected Obama's ways of thinking.

I think that the majority of Americans know very little about communism besides that it is/was out to get us. Yes I know that alot of people died cause of Communism but I am not talking about its leaders or its implementation, I am talking about the ideal. Also our track record in the US with genocide is not the greatest either (not a defense of senseless murder just an observation).

I think that if more people learned what socialism/communism was all about, I think it would have a much better view in the US. It will never work in practice though.

[Beamer]

Then what purpose does government serve if not provide for its people? It should only be there to enforce laws and deal with other nations? By your logic, anyone who can't afford to keep up should just be left to die. Can't make money to pay for your health insurance? Too bad, try not to get sick.

Maybe i'm just an idealistic dreamer but how anyone in this country doesn't feel shame that as rich as this nation is we still have millions living in poverty is beyond me. But oh yeah, god forbid someone can't buy a $250K car or a $30 million dollar entire floor apartment on 5th avenue.

Where did I say that?
I said the government should not run health care. I never said it should not heavily, heavily regulate it and find a way to get it to everyone. The government is outstanding in regulating. It is terrible at doing. Name one service the government provides and does so well and efficiently.

Just one. Any one.


But if someone works hard why shouldn't they be able to buy a $250k car?
I'm not wholly convinced that we have an obligation to provide for every other man. That our hard work should benefit all in a way that may not benefit us. Nor am I convinced that national health care doesn't benefit us all directly, in that a healthier country is a more productive country.

Health care isn't terribly difficult to get in this country, anyway, even with the economy tanking as it currently is. If you don't have it, it's probably due to poor choices made on your part. Not always, but probably. I know that comment will piss people off, but a significant chunk of those without health care aren't high school graduates. How many of those were unable to graduate high school and how many chose not to?

[CardsFan]

Where did I say that?

Health care isn't terribly difficult to get in this country, anyway, even with the economy tanking as it currently is. If you don't have it, it's probably due to poor choices made on your part. Not always, but probably. I know that comment will piss people off, but a significant chunk of those without health care aren't high school graduates. How many of those were unable to graduate high school and how many chose not to?

That would be because the most significant portion of the people that lack health care are children.

Reason for edit: didn't bold the passage like I wanted.

This post has been edited by CardsFan: Feb 21 2008, 02:20 PM

[Hockey101]

Oh, c'mon now. I agree with the fact that now he'll have to defend himself (as stupid as the report is, he'll have to waste time addressing it) and the Republicans will be all over it. But I find it hard to believe that you didn't think that putting up a link to a story may cause some people to now question Obama. Even though the story has no real basis to question him?

He should address it and it's not wasting time at all. Look, a guy he admired and learned from was a pro Soviet Union supporter during the Cold War. People can draw their own conclusions of this, but any American that questions Obama's ways of thinking because of that has every right.

There is so much more to know about this guy. I think republicans know more about this guy than most of his supporters do and are waiting to slam him with anything that comes up. Right now, this guy is just a media star and of course Clinton can't destroy him the way she wants to or else the party will kick her out. But the Republicans are like sharks right now, just circling around and waiting. If an American questions Obama and his links to communist ideologies, it's not good news for him, especially when the right will play games with it.

[Papagolash]

Communism works, just look at bee and ant colonies. It'll never work with humans though.

[Hockey101]

I think that the majority of Americans know very little about communism besides that it is/was out to get us. Yes I know that alot of people died cause of Communism but I am not talking about its leaders or its implementation, I am talking about the ideal. Also our track record in the US with genocide is not the greatest either (not a defense of senseless murder just an observation).

I think that if more people learned what socialism/communism was all about, I think it would have a much better view in the US. It will never work in practice though.

Maybe not the youth, but ones that lived as adults during the Cold War most likely know the basics of communism. Maybe not a whole lot of Americans do, but regardless.... now it's very easy to find what communism is with a few clicks on the internet.

I mean, can you imagine Pete being a communist and sharing his favorite glass of beer with someone he does not know, but he must share it? And Melvin with Jager?

[Beamer]

That would be because the most significant portion of the people that lack health care are children.

Reason for edit: didn't bold the passage like I wanted.

8.7 million out of about 47 million.


A bigger concern to me is the elderly. People are living forever these days, in many cases outliving their minds, in many cases outliving their bodies, too. When the boomers start hitting 80 en masse, retired yet needing significant healthcare, many 'round-the-clock healthcare, this country is fucked. Absolutely fucked.

Government-operated universal healthcare is one solution to this. If you wouldn't mind a significantly reduced paycheck.

[Beamer]

Communism works, just look at bee and ant colonies. It'll never work with humans though.

Monarchistic communism! Similar to China's capitalist communism, only with slightly more stringent breeding restrictions.

[leetchie69]

I have told 101 a hundred times already..

The buzzword "commie" or "communism" does not work anymore...but republicans think so....yet you keep coming back with it.

Just become an obamacun already...

[Hockey101]

I have told 101 a hundred times already..

The buzzword "commie" or "communism" does not work anymore...but republicans think so....yet you keep coming back with it.

Just become an obamacun already...

It may not to you liberals and i don't think all Americans are liberals that they wouldn't be affected by a potential president having communist ideas....

[CardsFan]

8.7 million out of about 47 million.
A bigger concern to me is the elderly. People are living forever these days, in many cases outliving their minds, in many cases outliving their bodies, too. When the boomers start hitting 80 en masse, retired yet needing significant healthcare, many 'round-the-clock healthcare, this country is fucked. Absolutely fucked.

Government-operated universal healthcare is one solution to this. If you wouldn't mind a significantly reduced paycheck.

Source?

We should liquify the elderly anyway.

[RedHerring]

Then what purpose does government serve if not provide for its people? It should only be there to enforce laws and deal with other nations? By your logic, anyone who can't afford to keep up should just be left to die. Can't make money to pay for your health insurance? Too bad, try not to get sick.

But, in that same logic, why punish those who have earned their money fair and square by forcing them to pay for other people's misfortunes? What you described is a perfectly neoliberal economy. All other things being equal, it should work, and I think it is the best kind of system to date. However, since we can't start from square one, it probably won't work out (see: South America).


The assholes who have inherited their money from their parents' hard work are the people who piss me off. If a guy makes millions based on his own hard work, he deserves every penny and can do with it whatever he wants.

[Hockey101]

The assholes who have inherited their money from their parents' hard work are the people who piss me off.

Errrrr, what? Why? So a lonely child, who will inherit everything as an adult, who comes from a rich family pisses you off?

[leetchie69]

It may not to you liberals and i don't think all Americans are liberals that they wouldn't be affected by a potential president having communist ideas....

Not just liberals..anyone who is educated.

[RedHerring]

Errrrr, what? Why? So a lonely child, who will inherit everything as an adult, who comes from a rich family pisses you off?

If they're stuck up about it, yes. They didn't earn a penny of that yet have absolutely no humility or respect for what their family has done. Huge example: Paris Hilton.

[leetchie69]

The assholes who have inherited their money from their parents' hard work are the people who piss me off. If a guy makes millions based on his own hard work, he deserves every penny and can do with it whatever he wants.

Most of the time those parents build up that fortune for their child..that is the whole point.
The cycle goes on..hopefully one day that person will have a child or beneficiary to leave it to.

Why does it piss you off? Where would you want the money to go?

[leetchie69]

If they're stuck up about it, yes. They didn't earn a penny of that yet have absolutely no humility or respect for what their family has done. Huge example: Paris Hilton.

Bad example..

Grandpa Hilton donated most of his estate to charity.
The Hilton sisters got very little.

Their name allowed to them to pursue other ventures which has earned them money...like fashion lines and such...

[RedHerring]

Bad example..

Grandpa Hilton donated most of his estate to charity.
The Hilton sisters got very little.

Their name allowed to them to pursue other ventures which has earned them money...like fashion lines and such...

Whatever, you know what I mean.

People that coast through life leeching off of their parents' hard earned money while contributing nothing of their own doesn't piss you off just a little? What do you do, just shrug your shoulders and go "I guess I wasn't lucky"? Do you agree that money is nothing more than a scale of how hard you work and how smart you are? Where does that put these people?

[leetchie69]

Whatever, you know what I mean.

People that coast through life leeching off of their parents' hard earned money while contributing nothing of their own doesn't piss you off just a little? What do you do, just shrug your shoulders and go "I guess I wasn't lucky"? Do you agree that money is nothing more than a scale of how hard you work and how smart you are? Where does that put these people?

Trust Fund Babies?

[Beamer]

Source?

We should liquify the elderly anyway.

Numbers:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/29/3487/

[Beamer]

Whatever, you know what I mean.

People that coast through life leeching off of their parents' hard earned money while contributing nothing of their own doesn't piss you off just a little? What do you do, just shrug your shoulders and go "I guess I wasn't lucky"? Do you agree that money is nothing more than a scale of how hard you work and how smart you are? Where does that put these people?

It shows how hard their parents and grandparents worked.
A big incentive to work is to make sure your children have a better life than you do.

And, as Barron Hilton has proven, when the kids squander it the parents get pissed off.




I was shocked to find out just how many of my high school friends had trust funds. It all came out one night when they were drunk.

[Hockey101]

Not just liberals..anyone who is educated.

Ah okay...... that's totally makes sense.

[Kusand]

Whatever, you know what I mean.

People that coast through life leeching off of their parents' hard earned money while contributing nothing of their own doesn't piss you off just a little? What do you do, just shrug your shoulders and go "I guess I wasn't lucky"? Do you agree that money is nothing more than a scale of how hard you work and how smart you are? Where does that put these people?

So I take it you're a supporter of a large estate tax, then?