Rangerland Forum Information

[Hockey101]

[Kusand]

I'm just going to pretend that you're saluting her for being a mother to her two children.

[Hockey101]

I'm just going to pretend that you're saluting her for being a mother to her two children.

Or that she disregards moms like mine.

[Greatone]

How much did Ann Romney get paid as Mother?

[Muno]

Manufactured outrage is fun.

[Sed]

Manufactured outrage is fun.

And pays better than stay-at-home outrage.

[Greatone]

Manufactured outrage is fun.

And pays better than stay-at-home outrage.

101 has never had real outrage.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I have no idea what this thread is about.

This post has been edited by SorryaboutthatWhoa: Apr 21 2012, 07:01 PM

[Paul Smachetti]

I have o idea what this thread is about.

and I thought it was just me.

[the old mole]

Don't hate Hilary Rosen because you don't understand what she meant by "work." Hate her because she lobbied for the RIAA and BP.

Edit: Made it nicer

This post has been edited by the old mole: Apr 21 2012, 07:10 PM

[Hockey101]

How much did Ann Romney get paid as Mother?

I think a mother would feel more reward with how she raises her kids than a paycheck.

[Greatone]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

[Charlie]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

You wouldn't happen to be Irish Catholic, would you?

[Greatone]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

You wouldn't happen to be Irish Catholic, would you?

Greek Orthodox.

[Beamer]

Again, I don't really follow it, but wasn't the point that Ann Romney, as a stay at home mom, doesn't know the hardship of a mother that not only has to raise kids but earn enough to support them?

Isn't that kind of not controversial? A man saying that raising kids isn't a job is, but a woman saying that raising kids isn't as hard as raising kids and having a job seems, I dunno, kind of common sense.

[Hockey101]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

For many mothers it is a job. It is hard work. Just because you don't get paid does not mean that you don't have a job. To discredit saying that it's not work and not a job is total bullshit.

And by the way, my mom was widowed. Not easy to raise two small children......especially in Rome.

This post has been edited by Hockey101: Apr 22 2012, 12:26 AM

[The Great Dane]

Again, I don't really follow it, but wasn't the point that Ann Romney, as a stay at home mom, doesn't know the hardship of a mother that not only has to raise kids but earn enough to support them?

Isn't that kind of not controversial? A man saying that raising kids isn't a job is, but a woman saying that raising kids isn't as hard as raising kids and having a job seems, I dunno, kind of common sense.

Yes, that's exactly the point.

Just another reason why: my mom>Ann Romney.

Talk about manufactured outrage

This post has been edited by The Great Dane: Apr 22 2012, 04:41 AM

[leetchie69]

I consider it more a responsibility than a job.

But the point here is that Ann Romney (and most filthy wealthy moms) definitely have it easier than almost all moms, especially single moms.

[Beamer]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

For many mothers it is a job. It is hard work. Just because you don't get paid does not mean that you don't have a job. To discredit saying that it's not work and not a job is total bullshit.

And by the way, my mom was widowed. Not easy to raise two small children......especially in Rome.

No one is saying it isn't a job, people are saying that some mothers have a job, which is being a mom, and some mothers have two jobs, which are being a mom and working somewhere to pay the rent.

Which is more difficult?

This post has been edited by Beamer: Apr 22 2012, 10:16 AM

[Greatone]

He'll get back to you once Fox News has a segment telling viewers how to feel.

[Hockey101]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

For many mothers it is a job. It is hard work. Just because you don't get paid does not mean that you don't have a job. To discredit saying that it's not work and not a job is total bullshit.

And by the way, my mom was widowed. Not easy to raise two small children......especially in Rome.

No one is saying it isn't a job, people are saying that some mothers have a job, which is being a mom, and some mothers have two jobs, which are being a mom and working somewhere to pay the rent.

Which is more difficult?

Rosen basically considered it and my mom was offended, as were millions of other mothers. Not all stay-at-home moms are rich either. Unfortunately greatone has to result to idiocy and doesn't even take into fact that seeing my mom upset about it is where i get this opinion and feeling.

[Beamer]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

For many mothers it is a job. It is hard work. Just because you don't get paid does not mean that you don't have a job. To discredit saying that it's not work and not a job is total bullshit.

And by the way, my mom was widowed. Not easy to raise two small children......especially in Rome.

No one is saying it isn't a job, people are saying that some mothers have a job, which is being a mom, and some mothers have two jobs, which are being a mom and working somewhere to pay the rent.

Which is more difficult?

Rosen basically considered it and my mom was offended, as were millions of other mothers. Not all stay-at-home moms are rich either. Unfortunately greatone has to result to idiocy and doesn't even take into fact that seeing my mom upset about it is where i get this opinion and feeling.

No one is saying all stay at home moms are rich, they're saying that Ann Romney did not have the experience millions of moms do in experiencing the hardship of trying to provide a living and raise a family at the same time.
The biggest issue I have with the Romneys is that they're never willing to say "yes, we were very fortunate and our experiences are not typical for Americans," instead they get defensive and try to act as if having several Cadillacs is normal.

There's no denying that being a working mom with no help for your children is harder than being a stay at home mom. Yes, for many moms working is easier, because the kids go to day care or have a nanny or whatever, but for many more it's damn near impossible to go spend 8 hours at Walmart and come home and provide for your kids the same way a mother that doesn't need to leave the home can.



I mean, who had it harder: Michael Keaton in Mr. Mom or Will Smith in the Pursuit of Shitty Spelling?

[the old mole]

I wish I had thought of this when I was 16 and my mom told me to get a job. "What do you mean I've never worked a day in my life? I go to school and I mow the lawn and I wash the cars and I do the dishes! Frankly I'm offended that you would even suggest that what I do isn't already a full-time job."

[Hockey101]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

For many mothers it is a job. It is hard work. Just because you don't get paid does not mean that you don't have a job. To discredit saying that it's not work and not a job is total bullshit.

And by the way, my mom was widowed. Not easy to raise two small children......especially in Rome.

No one is saying it isn't a job, people are saying that some mothers have a job, which is being a mom, and some mothers have two jobs, which are being a mom and working somewhere to pay the rent.

Which is more difficult?

Rosen basically considered it and my mom was offended, as were millions of other mothers. Not all stay-at-home moms are rich either. Unfortunately greatone has to result to idiocy and doesn't even take into fact that seeing my mom upset about it is where i get this opinion and feeling.

No one is saying all stay at home moms are rich, they're saying that Ann Romney did not have the experience millions of moms do in experiencing the hardship of trying to provide a living and raise a family at the same time.
The biggest issue I have with the Romneys is that they're never willing to say "yes, we were very fortunate and our experiences are not typical for Americans," instead they get defensive and try to act as if having several Cadillacs is normal.

She still managed to bring up good kids who matured well and became good family people as well. I just don't like the notion that Rosen said Ann Romney never had a job.

And Romney has mentioned numerous times how fortunate he was. He gave away his inheritance from his father. I think he gave away 30% of his own to charity too.

[Greatone]

I wonder what type of insurance plan Mother, Inc. provides.

[leetchie69]

I wonder what type of insurance plan Mother, Inc. provides.

For most it is Medicaid.

[Sed]

I wonder what type of insurance plan Mother, Inc. provides.

There's charity care - did wonders for my mother's ovarian cancer.

Oh, wait. No, it didn't.

[The Great Dane]

I wonder what type of insurance plan Mother, Inc. provides.

There's charity care - did wonders for my mother's ovarian cancer.

Oh, wait. No, it didn't.

And that's IT, right there.

(Great) joke aside, being a stay-at-home mom today in 2012 is a CHOICE. One you get to make if you're wealthy. Who has the money to live off one income? So while being a mom is a lot of hard work, it goes without saying that being a working mom IS HARDER.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

So I'll take that to mean she received 0 paychecks. So how is it a job?

*This coming from a son of a mom who raised 8 other kids besides me. So dont lecture me about how much work it is to raise a family. But even my mom wouldnt consider it an actual job. That was the nursing career she had during the day.

For many mothers it is a job. It is hard work. Just because you don't get paid does not mean that you don't have a job. To discredit saying that it's not work and not a job is total bullshit.

And by the way, my mom was widowed. Not easy to raise two small children......especially in Rome.

No one is saying it isn't a job, people are saying that some mothers have a job, which is being a mom, and some mothers have two jobs, which are being a mom and working somewhere to pay the rent.

Which is more difficult?

Rosen basically considered it and my mom was offended, as were millions of other mothers. Not all stay-at-home moms are rich either. Unfortunately greatone has to result to idiocy and doesn't even take into fact that seeing my mom upset about it is where i get this opinion and feeling.

No one is saying all stay at home moms are rich, they're saying that Ann Romney did not have the experience millions of moms do in experiencing the hardship of trying to provide a living and raise a family at the same time.
The biggest issue I have with the Romneys is that they're never willing to say "yes, we were very fortunate and our experiences are not typical for Americans," instead they get defensive and try to act as if having several Cadillacs is normal.

She still managed to bring up good kids who matured well and became good family people as well. I just don't like the notion that Rosen said Ann Romney never had a job.

And Romney has mentioned numerous times how fortunate he was. He gave away his inheritance from his father. I think he gave away 30% of his own to charity too.

101as always I feel the need to interject because you know I come to your defense many times. I don't get why you don't nderstand the difference between being a stay at home mom, and being a working mom. NO ONE discounted what it takes to be a mother. NO ONE.

[leedsy99]

I'm confused by this whole thread. Where did Ann Romney work again? I thought she was a stay-at-home mom for her whole life.

I shouldn't make fun. My family has been pretty fortunate too. For example, my mom gave away her inheritance too. It was an '83 Buick Skylark. Which she gave to me and my brother, so we could drive to the summer jobs we held in high school.

[Hockey101]

SATW, the only difference on this matter is that one mother gets a paycheck an the other one does not. I did not like it when Rosen said that Ann Romney never worked a day in her life. Basically she disqualified Anne. She disqualified my mom who had to raise me, 3, and my brother, 6, when my father passed away (although i consider my step-father as my father). I understand that a mom with a job plus kids is harder. But don't say that someone like my mom has never worked a day in her life.

That commercial proves how what Rosen said is dismissive and untrue.

This is a good read.

[Beamer]

SATW, the only difference on this matter is that one mother gets a paycheck an the other one does not.

Sorry, that's complete and utter bullshit.


Ann Romney - being a millionaire stay at home mother getting manicures while your kids are in private school is as hard as raising 3 kids while working a shift at Walmart.




101, it's hard being a mother. It's harder being a mother and an employee. If you want to say being a mother is a job, fine, cool, Ann Romney had a job. Most American mothers have two.

[Mike B.]

Not that I disagree with a lot of you guys, but Hilary Rosen wasn't exactly as nuanced as some of the arguments you are making. She said that Ann Romney "never worked a day in her life", which pretty clearly carries with it a statement that stay at home motherhood isn't work. It was only after she got blasted by people like David Axelrod and Obama's campaign manager that she tried to clarify her comments. This was the original quote:

“His wife has actually never worked a day in her life,” Rosen said on Anderson Cooper’s “AC360” show. “She’s never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school and how do we — why we worry about their future.”

She does touch on economic issues, but that lead statement is pretty harsh.

[Hockey101]

SATW, the only difference on this matter is that one mother gets a paycheck an the other one does not.

Sorry, that's complete and utter bullshit.


Ann Romney - being a millionaire stay at home mother getting manicures while your kids are in private school is as hard as raising 3 kids while working a shift at Walmart.




101, it's hard being a mother. It's harder being a mother and an employee. If you want to say being a mother is a job, fine, cool, Ann Romney had a job. Most American mothers have two.

It's kinda implied that if a mother also gets a paycheck that means she is working two jobs (home and office) and it is harder. I never said that it was not. But going back to the root of the point made by Rosen, which MikeB points out as well, that's what i have an issue with.

[bloodorange]

Oh, for fuck's sake. You were not raising the nuanced point that Mike just made, so don't even.

[Kusand]

Meh. Sounds like a lot of hand-wringing over what the ambiguous "worked" means. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if her initial phrasing was something like "His wife has actually never worked a day in her life, she just played with her kids." I can see how it comes off 'tone-deaf' (to steal the popular phrase) but largely the whole thing seems pretty overblown. She sounds snippy in the actual video, for sure, but the point about economic issues immediately following it makes it seem pretty clear that the focus was supposed to be "Ann Romney isn't connected to the reality most working moms face" and she just blew it with her language.


That said, what DC politician is actually connected to average people in any way? All of these politicians are pretty privileged, and I'm baffled that any of them are taken seriously when they claim to understand any of us.

[bloodorange]

She sounds snippy in the actual video, for sure, but the point about economic issues immediately following it makes it seem pretty clear that the focus was supposed to be "Ann Romney isn't connected to the reality most working moms face" and she just blew it with her language.

Being a stay-at-home mom is a ton of work. Being a mom who is forced to have a job outside the home as well as fully caring for one's children is two tons of work. Being a stay-at-home mom who has hundreds of millions of dollars at her disposal and probably a household staff? Not anywhere near most moms' "reality." That said... I'm sure five boys are a handful whether the hand is manicured or not.

So a talking head said something more tartly than she "should." Give me a fucking break.

This post has been edited by bloodorange: Apr 23 2012, 12:05 AM

[the old mole]

Here's the quote, in context:


It is clear from the beginning that they are talking about "jobs" and "economic issues"; i.e. issues of "work" as in "work done by an employee for an employer in which the employee receives a wage or salary."

Anderson Cooper's question: "Women are seeing jobs come back more slowly than men have. Is there anything really wrong, then, with reaching out to women on an issue they care about, on the economy?"

Rosen answers that Mitt says Ann tells him what women are concerned about, but how can Ann really understand what women are going through, having never worked a day (AT A JOB!) in her life?

The worst part about it is that Rosen apologized instead of sticking to her guns pointing out the stupidity of all this phony outrage.

[Hockey101]

Oh, for fuck's sake. You were not raising the nuanced point that Mike just made, so don't even.

I pointed this thread at Rosen. So what the hell are you even talking about? Of course it was directed at her, which MikeB points out again.

[Kusand]

So a talking head said something more tartly than she "should." Give me a fucking break.

Well, she's a talking head. Her job is to talk well as a face in a box on a screen, and she fucked up at her job. If you're interested in what talking heads say, which it seems to me you are since you're in here being mad about this, then she blew it. When saying something tartly is enough to get a news cycle about whether you're mean to stay-at-home moms, then yes, being excessively tart is stupid.

[Mike B.]

Oh, for fuck's sake. You were not raising the nuanced point that Mike just made, so don't even.

I pointed this thread at Rosen. So what the hell are you even talking about? Of course it was directed at her, which MikeB points out again.

What have I done nooooooooo!

I think this is largely overblown too. It really is amazing how easily things like this can be manipulated to send whatever message you want, and to incite whatever level of outrage you want. Think of how different the message is when you take just the one sentence, then the whole quote I posted above in print, and then the video clip.

Of course, there are few people in this country who are as well off as the Romneys are. But I'm sure there are a few people here who were raised by stay at home mothers for whatever reason, and they might object to someone saying that their mothers never worked. I'm not exactly crying for Mitt though, if he wants to bring her into the campaign he has to deal with the criticism that comes his way as a result.

[ChokeMOut]

SATW, the only difference on this matter is that one mother gets a paycheck an the other one does not. I did not like it when Rosen said that Ann Romney never worked a day in her life. Basically she disqualified Anne. She disqualified my mom who had to raise me, 3, and my brother, 6, when my father passed away (although i consider my step-father as my father). I understand that a mom with a job plus kids is harder. But don't say that someone like my mom has never worked a day in her life.

That commercial proves how what Rosen said is dismissive and untrue.

This is a good read.

I know I haven't been around that much, in recent years, but if IRC 101 you come from reasonably privileged families. I'm not saying your mother didn't work, but in this day and age it is rare that many families have the luxury of one income.

In my younger days, I was a lifeguard at a country club. There were many "stay at home moms" who would drop their kids off at day camp, play tennis, eat lunch, and then sit by the kiddie pool while their nannies and I were the primary supervision. I doubt Anne Romney did too much different.

[Greatone]

Here's the quote, in context:


It is clear from the beginning that they are talking about "jobs" and "economic issues"; i.e. issues of "work" as in "work done by an employee for an employer in which the employee receives a wage or salary."

Anderson Cooper's question: "Women are seeing jobs come back more slowly than men have. Is there anything really wrong, then, with reaching out to women on an issue they care about, on the economy?"

Rosen answers that Mitt says Ann tells him what women are concerned about, but how can Ann really understand what women are going through, having never worked a day (AT A JOB!) in her life?

The worst part about it is that Rosen apologized instead of sticking to her guns pointing out the stupidity of all this phony outrage.

How dare you bring context and actual understanding of the situation to this thread!

[bloodorange]

So a talking head said something more tartly than she "should." Give me a fucking break.

Well, she's a talking head. Her job is to talk well as a face in a box on a screen, and she fucked up at her job. If you're interested in what talking heads say, which it seems to me you are since you're in here being mad about this, then she blew it. When saying something tartly is enough to get a news cycle about whether you're mean to stay-at-home moms, then yes, being excessively tart is stupid.

Oh, I totally agree with you! It was stupid and she blew it. I just mean the expansion of this into DEMOCRATS HATE MOTHERS! is both ludicrous and entirely predictable.

101, I was referring to your irrational, sentimental approach to the incident, with analysis as fine as, say, a cudgel. And then when Mike comes in with a thoughtful criticism of Ms. Rosen's choice of words you're like SEE WE AGREE! It's disingenuous. and I was feeling bitchy and staying up late with a little whisky so please forgive my snotty attitude.

[Beamer]

Not that I disagree with a lot of you guys, but Hilary Rosen wasn't exactly as nuanced as some of the arguments you are making. She said that Ann Romney "never worked a day in her life", which pretty clearly carries with it a statement that stay at home motherhood isn't work. It was only after she got blasted by people like David Axelrod and Obama's campaign manager that she tried to clarify her comments. This was the original quote:

“His wife has actually never worked a day in her life,” Rosen said on Anderson Cooper’s “AC360” show. “She’s never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing in terms of how do we feed our kids, how do we send them to school and how do we — why we worry about their future.”

She does touch on economic issues, but that lead statement is pretty harsh.

First half of her statement = stupid.
Second half of her statement = valid.

Of course, the GOP (and this isn't exclusive to them, it's any fucking political organization - see the Catholic Defense League currently protesting The Daily Show for 5 seconds of air time) hones in on the part that's clearly not quite right while completely fucking ignoring the part that is.

And, again, this drives me nuts with Romney - he always gets fucking defensive and acting like a victim over stupid shit. "I will not apologize for earning so much money." Fuck you, Romney, no one wants you to fucking apologize. People want you to admit you've been fortunate and that your life isn't typical and address why this doesn't mean you aren't out of touch. Instead Romney and his supporters keep going "he isn't out of touch because he's just like you!" No he fucking isn't, stop beating that drum. You can easily say why what makes him different isn't meaningful and doesn't stop him from understanding me, but stop fucking claiming he's just like me. Until I have a quarter of a billion dollars in the bank that simply isn't true.

[Hockey101]

So a talking head said something more tartly than she "should." Give me a fucking break.

Well, she's a talking head. Her job is to talk well as a face in a box on a screen, and she fucked up at her job. If you're interested in what talking heads say, which it seems to me you are since you're in here being mad about this, then she blew it. When saying something tartly is enough to get a news cycle about whether you're mean to stay-at-home moms, then yes, being excessively tart is stupid.

Oh, I totally agree with you! It was stupid and she blew it. I just mean the expansion of this into DEMOCRATS HATE MOTHERS! is both ludicrous and entirely predictable.

101, I was referring to your irrational, sentimental approach to the incident, with analysis as fine as, say, a cudgel. And then when Mike comes in with a thoughtful criticism of Ms. Rosen's choice of words you're like SEE WE AGREE! It's disingenuous. and I was feeling bitchy and staying up late with a little whisky so please forgive my snotty attitude.

Oooo, what whisky? I'm starting to get into whisky (malt). And you are forgiven.

But i am really not being irrational about it. I wouldn't be. I saw my mom upset over it. Nobody upsets me momma! But really, she was upset and i know she went through a lot of harsh moments.

But anyway.... moving on...

[leedsy99]

That commercial proves how what Rosen said is dismissive and untrue.

Good point. It's just like that commercial that proves that beer and sports attract hot women.

[Hockey101]

That commercial proves how what Rosen said is dismissive and untrue.

Good point. It's just like that commercial that proves that beer and sports attract hot women.

Down here it does

[bloodorange]

That commercial proves how what Rosen said is dismissive and untrue.

Good point. It's just like that commercial that proves that beer and sports attract hot women.

HEY!



101, I was hanging with my buddy Laphroaig, for the record.

[Hockey101]

That commercial proves how what Rosen said is dismissive and untrue.

Good point. It's just like that commercial that proves that beer and sports attract hot women.

HEY!



101, I was hanging with my buddy Laphroaig, for the record.

I've tasted a Glenfiddich and a Macallan. Me starting to likey a new line of liquor.