Rangerland Forum Information

[xcheck24]

I'm sitting here watching the news before catching the train...Apparently Sean Avery was arrested in LA for battery on a police officer after a noise complaint. Or so they said on the NBC News.

[HDH]

Oh that's bad.

NHL star Sean Avery was arrested early this morning after he shoved a police officer who was trying to break up a loud party at his home in the Hollywood Hills... TMZ has learned.

According to law enforcement sources, a neighbor called police to complain about the noise coming from Avery's home. When police arrived at about 1:00 AM, we're told Avery answered the door ... then shoved a cop and slammed the door behind him.

Police then knocked again, and we're told Avery came to his senses and opened up. According to law enforcement ... Avery was extremely cooperative after that, but was still booked for battery on a peace officer.

He was taken to the Hollywood police station and is being held on $20,000 bail.

From TMZ.

[NYRFaithful]

All through battling having to play for a coach that absolutely loathes him, and has him on such a short leash that it is amazing he's able to go out there and perform at all.

I call bullshit. This is pure conjecture on your part. Yes, Torts said negative things about Avery on TSN before he took over for Renney, but I don't think that there is any loathing. I personally think that Torts is mostly fair with Avery and takes it at face value. During his post-game pressers, he's equally willing to sing Sean's praises when he's had a good game as to pointing out some of his gaffes when he's had a bad game. I also believe that at the end of last season, he said that Sean knows how he needs to play to be successful, and he hopes to see him return to that next season. That is not hatred. That's not loathing. That's a fair assesment combined with constructive criticism.

I was right there with you up until this comment. From there, your creditability fell apart for me. Just because Avery's fanboys like to take the approach that the entire world (Torts, Refs, Soupy, etc) is against Avery, that doesn't necessarily make it so. Way to ruin what was otherwise a very strong, factual and statistic-based argument.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

oh good, it's going to be one of those seasons with Avery. He's like our teams fucking arod without the all-star talent

[toph]

Arrested? Really?

Uhg. Dumbass.

[Greatone]

Notice it doesnt say that Brad Richards was there. So much for being best friends!

[HDH]

I call bullshit. This is pure conjecture on your part. Yes, Torts said negative things about Avery on TSN before he took over for Renney, but I don't think that there is any loathing. I personally think that Torts is mostly fair with Avery and takes it at face value. During his post-game pressers, he's equally willing to sing Sean's praises when he's had a good game as to pointing out some of his gaffes when he's had a bad game. I also believe that at the end of last season, he said that Sean knows how he needs to play to be successful, and he hopes to see him return to that next season. That is not hatred. That's not loathing. That's a fair assesment combined with constructive criticism.

I was right there with you up until this comment. From there, your creditability fell apart for me. Just because Avery's fanboys like to take the approach that the entire world (Torts, Refs, Soupy, etc) is against Avery, that doesn't necessarily make it so. Way to ruin what was otherwise a very strong, factual and statistic-based argument.

Except that I personally spoke to his brother Scott who is the bartender at Warren 77 (Sean's bar) and he essentially confirmed it. Nice try though.


EDIT: Actually, his exact quote was "major personality conflicts".

This post has been edited by HDH: Aug 5 2011, 07:38 AM

[S.D.Willie]

At times doesn't think on the ice. At times doesn't think off the ice. Que sera sera.

[NYRFaithful]

Except that I personally spoke to his brother Scott who is the bartender at Warren 77 (Sean's bar) and he essentially confirmed it. Nice try though.
EDIT: Actually, his exact quote was "major personality conflicts".

That shit be havin a slant.

[steamroller]

Do arrests trigger another buyout period?

[HDH]

That shit be havin a slant.

Not to mention that Brooks has hinted at such, and you'll recall Torts' comments regarding Avery after the sloppy seconds incident?

when the NHL suspended Avery for his comments about other hockey players dating his former girlfriends, Tortorella said this on TSN: "The league stepped up here and I think they did the right thing. Enough is enough. He's embarrassed himself, he's embarrassed the organization, he's embarrassed the league and he's embarrassed his teammates, who have to look out for him. Send him home. He doesn't belong in the league."

But, pure conjecture. Whatever.

[HDH]

And this exchange with reporters regarding his benching in the Capitals series a couple of years ago...


http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/...avery-question/

Q: At this point, the same lineup tonight?

Tortorella: We have some nicks along the way here. It’ll be a game-time decision for some guys. I don’t see a real big problem. We’ll see as the game starts.

Q: No one’s being benched for any reasons other than nicks?

Tortorella: Are you asking the question in a different way?

Q: Yeah, I’m asking if you’re benching Sean.

Tortorella: As far as the lineup, when we play tonight at 7 o’clock you’ll see our lineup. Go from there.

Q: Is your reluctance to talk about the thing with Sean because you believe it’s a team matter that you want to keep in the room?

Tortorella: Yeah. You guys, because of what Sean did the other night want to make it a Sean Avery thing. I coach the New York Rangers. I think the team concept is the most important thing. That’s the way I’m trying to approach this. I can’t control what you guys do. You do what you do, and I do what I do. My biggest concern is a team that I feel needs to get better. Whether we’re up 3-1, 2-2, down 3-1, we need to be better as a team. That’s our whole focus.

Q: We’re asking because what Sean did went outside the team concept.

Tortorella: Yes, and I’m not going to have a conversation with you guys about Sean. I’ll give you this: When Sean and I met for the first time when I came here and he came here, we both talked, and we were going to handle it like men, go through the process. I’m not going to talk to you guys about Sean Avery or anybody else.

Q: It would be the same question if it was another player who had committed two penalties in the last 10 minutes of the game. It’s not just Sean. It’d be the same question.

Tortorella: And I understand that, and I respect you asking the question. But I also … a couple of things came up with a couple of players earlier this season, and I told you that belongs in the locker room. This belongs in the locker room too. I’m not trying to disrespect anybody here, but I know what you guys want to do. You want this to be a Sean Avery story, and I’m not getting into a conversation about a Sean Avery story. I’ll get into a conversation about what the New York Rangers have to do to try to win. So I’ll leave it at that.

And Torts' and Avery's comments on breakup day this year:

Tortorella said little about Avery, whose contract, worth $1.9 million against the cap, runs through next year.

“It’s a matter of consistency,” he said. “Sean played good in the playoffs. It wasn’t anything spectacular, but it’s a situation where I have to make decisions each and every game for what’s best for the hockey club. So with Sean, I don’t know where it sits.”

Avery was one of the Rangers’ best forwards in the playoffs. But Tortorella made him a healthy scratch in six late-season games and limited his ice time all season, even as Avery heeded Tortorella’s directives to rein in his style of play.

Avery called his season “difficult.” He scored 3 goals and had 21 assists in limited action. His words to reporters sounded like pushback against the strictures imposed by Tortorella.

“I was happy with how I played in the playoffs,” Avery said. “I stopped worrying about things that I’d been worried about over the course of the season: turning pucks over and penalties.

Avery said the style he liked to play was a “risk/reward” proposition, in which he might take penalties but is more effective.

“It’s a struggle that I’ve been dealing with,” he said. “But I said before I got back in the series that I wasn’t going to have that mentality anymore moving forward.”

Do you yield?

[Paul Smachetti]

Notice it doesnt say that Brad Richards was there. So much for being best friends!

Yeah! I'm sure they're inseperable and go everywhere and do everything together.

[Greatone]

Yeah! I'm sure they're inseperable and go everywhere and do everything together.

God, that sarcasm flew right over your fucking head.

[HDH]

Double.

This post has been edited by HDH: Aug 5 2011, 08:34 AM

[HDH]

And something from Jesse Spector at the Daily News:

While Tortorella had a couple of consistent lines, he did also do his share of shuffling, and you’ll no doubt note that Marian Gaborik’s name was not on the list of players who skated regularly with the same linemates. Also not on that list: Sean Avery, who had occasional flashes of chemistry with Gaborik, but could never seem to stick with him. Certainly, people know about the history of the Tortorella-Avery relationship, but I really have a hard time believing that Tortorella would sabotage a chance for his best player to break out because of personal feelings. The problem seemed more to be that Tortorella did not like the lack of defense in an Avery-Gaborik pairing, and also did not trust Avery not to take costly penalties. Given what Avery said about his own season, and not playing like himself – instead of being the player who can push the envelope, but not cross the line, he was either too hard or too soft – it made sense. Still, it seemed like it would have been worth more of a try for an extended period to get two important players on track.

You let me know when you've had enough, Faithful.

[Rocha]

Heh.

Being an Avery hater is pretty easy these days. 3 goal season? Shoves a cop breaking up his Hollywood party? I'll be in the pool if you need me.

[Paul Smachetti]

God, that sarcasm flew right over your fucking head.

as mine flew over yours and I used the rolleyes emoticon to emphasize it. You need something to distinguish your sarcasm from your snarky comments.

[xcheck24]

I am waiting for the full story on this Avery incident, but doesn't look so hot for him.

As for the Torts-Avery thing...You guys also need to remember Avery has said nice things about playing for Torts too, so it goes both ways.
And if Torts hates him that much why does he put Avery on the top line at times? And reward him when he does play well.

There's always speculation on Torts hating this player or that player, but has there been definitive proof of it?

The reality is, no matter what Torts thinks of someone personally is true or not, he does things based on how a player is performing and what can best serve the team. If that is Sean Avery, he'll put him where he can best help the team. If it's someone else, he does the same thing.

[Hockey101]

It doesn't look good, but i don't think it will affect his fitness in training camp. If he comes in shape and has a good camp, this is nothing but an archive story.

[HDH]

I am waiting for the full story on this Avery incident, but doesn't look so hot for him.

I'm anticipating that the charges will either be tossed, or he'll plead down to something lesser, like disorderly conduct (which is just a violation in NY).


I'll bet that he and the officer were arguing over the noise complaint and the neighbor, and Avery shouldered his way past an officer to go back inside. While it would be nothing between civilians, it is battery on an officer.

[leedsy99]

I am waiting for the full story on this Avery incident, but doesn't look so hot for him.

It's less about the facts and more about whether the Rangers want to deal with the continued blemishes that he brings to the organization. Either way, I'm not sure that I even care what they do. I like how he plays, but the production speaks for itself (i.e., it's less effective than it looks). He's popular, and I don't think the fanbase will care one bit about his arrest. But then again, maybe this is just the latest in a series of distractions that will be the last straw for his coach, who I imagine will be planning for a Stanley Cup run.

So, whatever. There's no benefit to waiving him at this point, unless you think he's going to sabotage the lockerroom, in which case he's not worth it.

[HDH]

But then again, maybe this is just the latest in a series of distractions that will be the last straw for his coach, who I imagine will be planning for a Stanley Cup run.

IF he were coaching the Penguins or something like that you mean.....right?

[jaxranger]

The Avery arrest making MSN's front page is just not good for the organization. I like Avery so hopefully there isn't too much to this story, but at some point in your adult life you have you need to make smart decisions. Outside of NHL fans, people actually recognize him. Say whatever, but I do believe that there comes some responsibility with that type of recognition.
My wife knows him because he was on one of those post real housewives shows. If you want to transcend the sport and find a place in the spotlight so be it, but this is the age of instant news and everyone has a camera phone. Don't act like an ass, especially if you're wearing Manpri's....

[leedsy99]

IF he were coaching the Penguins or something like that you mean.....right?

You're right. I imagine that at training camp, he will be stressing the importance of keeping expectations reasonable and manageable, pursuant to the organization's instituted policy of mediocrity.

[HDH]

You're right. I imagine that at training camp, he will be stressing the importance of keeping expectations reasonable and manageable, pursuant to the organization's instituted policy of mediocrity.

Exactly.

It's a "process".


Not everyone could/should be Rex Ryan.

[xcheck24]

I'm anticipating that the charges will either be tossed, or he'll plead down to something lesser, like disorderly conduct (which is just a violation in NY).
I'll bet that he and the officer were arguing over the noise complaint and the neighbor, and Avery shouldered his way past an officer to go back inside. While it would be nothing between civilians, it is battery on an officer.

I'm sure you're pretty close to the truth.

[SpanishJack]

The Avery arrest making MSN's front page is just not good for the organization.

Explain to me how would that be. We live in a day of age where athletes that done jail time stay with clubs or find themselves other clubs to hire their services. The Knicks went thru a worse situation with Marbury and it seems to me it didn't make one didly squat to management/ownership. The Jets just signed an individual that did time for gun possession. At the end of the day it all comes down on what you do in the playing field, or in this case in the ice rink. If Avery produces, then this episode would be a blip on the picture. I'm past this whole thing about expecting club I am a fan of to be full of choir individuals. That was not the case before, so why should be any difference now. Do I think Avery will play a large role in Rangers' success? No. I do think he is serviceable 3rd liner that would score some, play hard, will show up his presence when things get hot, and all things considered has a manageable contract for the role Tortorella has mind for him. This club is in big trouble if it needs Sean Avery to assume a larger role like playing on any of the 2 top lines. Has he injured anyone ala Matt Cooke? No. Has he said some stupid things? Absolutely.

This post has been edited by SpanishJack: Aug 5 2011, 10:33 AM

[Andy from the LE...]

Way to ruin what was otherwise a very strong, factual and statistic-based argument.

Jesus, dude, you're like one of those guys on sites like gamestop who review games and whatnot who go, "yeah, the game is awesome, but I didn't like one little thing about the packaging, so that undoes everything good about the game. 0 stars."

[xcheck24]

Apparently TMZ is reporting Avery taunted the cops, called them fat piggies and would fight them all.



(But there is a Brodeur joke in there...although far too easy)

[Andy from the LE...]

Shoves a cop breaking up his Hollywood party?

This can be a plus in some circles...

[Chris4]

I cannot wait until Sean Avery and his 3 goals no longer play for the New York Rangers.

^

[Andy from the LE...]

Apparently TMZ is reporting Avery taunted the cops, called them fat piggies and would fight them all.



(But there is a Brodeur joke in there...although far too easy)

Did he offer them $1 billion dollars, ah la the HoF's newest member, Eddie Belfour?

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Did he offer them $1 billion dollars, ah la the HoF's newest member, Eddie Belfour?

Is there anything that will make you sit back and think "Maybe Avery isn't all that great" Or are the rose colored Avery glasses surgically attached to your face at this point?

This post has been edited by SorryaboutthatWhoa: Aug 5 2011, 11:23 AM

[S.D.Willie]

Apparently TMZ is reporting Avery taunted the cops, called them fat piggies and would fight them all.



(But there is a Brodeur joke in there...although far too easy)

you're kidding. TMZ? phhhhhhh

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

you're kidding. TMZ? phhhhhhh

TMZ, I think, are the ones who originally broke the story. As much as I hate to admit it, they do get the story right every once in a while

[Andy from the LE...]

Is there anything that will make you sit back and think "Maybe Avery isn't all that great" Or are the rose colored Avery glasses surgically attached to your face at this point?

Is there anything other than the statistical FACTS that HDH posted to get you to think, "Maybe Avery isn't all that bad?" You make an amazing case for the ignore feature, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one here who feels that way.

As for the arrest - I'm having fun with it, that's all. With all due respect to the peace officers who post here, I've met A LOT of prick cops who'd salivate at the idea of "busting" a celeb for talking shit. "Battery?" Bullshit - those charges won't make it past the next few days, if not hours. You or I can get charged for "battery" simply for brushing up against a cop on a crowded street.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

You make an amazing case for the ignore feature, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one here who feels that way.

Oh god, it's such a deep cut.

[Andy from the LE...]

Oh god, it's such a deep cut.

Yeah, you're quite the ballbreaker yourself, champ.

EDIT: BTW, I love how you can't debunk any single claim I make with even the slightest shred of empirical evidence.

This post has been edited by Andy from the LES: Aug 5 2011, 11:40 AM

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Yeah, you're quite the ballbreaker yourself, champ.

EDIT: BTW, I love how you can't debunk any single claim I make with even the slightest shred of empirical evidence.

Here's some empirical evidence. 3 goals. I thought Rocha did a pretty good job of explaining that himself and me reiterating his arguments would just be redundant.

I've said a number of times, I don't really hate the player at all. It's his obnoxious fans I can't stand. I proved elsewhere that last season there was much more of a "Boyle Effect" then there EVER was an "Avery Effect" even in his best season here. I used statistical evidence to prove that Boyle not only had better numbers, but they clearly showed he had the same, if not a BETTER effect on winning percentage than Avery ever did.

But, because Boyle doesn't get in front of cameras and say sloppy seconds, or do stupid shit on the ice putting himself in danger like the "Avery Rule" incident, the fans don't slob Boyle's knob.

Which leads me to believe, the love for Avery actually has NOTHING to do with his actual on ice performances, in the slightest.

[Andy from the LE...]

Here's some empirical evidence. 3 goals. I thought Rocha did a pretty good job of explaining that himself and me reiterating his arguments would just be redundant.

...which HDH pointed out was an career aberration. The same argument can be presented against Marian Gaborik, who makes over three times the salary and whose mediocre performance neccessitated the signing of a center for $60 mil over 9 years.

I've said a number of times, I don't really hate the player at all. It's his obnoxious fans I can't stand. I proved elsewhere that last season there was much more of a "Boyle Effect" then there EVER was an "Avery Effect" even in his best season here. I used statistical evidence to prove that Boyle not only had better numbers, but they clearly showed he had the same, if not a BETTER effect on winning percentage than Avery ever did.

No argument here. I like Boyle, and I agree that the Avery effect is bunk at worse, overly exaggerated at best.

But, because Boyle doesn't get in front of cameras and say sloppy seconds, or do stupid shit on the ice putting himself in danger like the "Avery Rule" incident, the fans don't slob Boyle's knob.

Then tell that to THOSE fans, but don't try to sell the idea that he's the worst player on the team, because he simply isn't, or that he's a "borderline AHLer" (I think Chris said this, but I presume your sentiments are the same, no?). I think he's a useful player on the team, good for 10-15 goals and good physical play, and the kind of guy who (as seen last season with Gaborik) can step up into the top six in a pinch for a short period of time. No more, no less. As for his antics - I forgive all so long as he contributes to the Rangers winning hockey games. Are they entertaining? Yes, I admit, because most hockey players are boring as hell. That said, I do think he plays well, last season aside.

[jaxranger]

Explain to me how would that be. We live in a day of age where athletes that done jail time stay with clubs or find themselves other clubs to hire their services. The Knicks went thru a worse situation with Marbury and it seems to me it didn't make one didly squat to management/ownership. The Jets just signed an individual that did time for gun possession. At the end of the day it all comes down on what you do in the playing field, or in this case in the ice rink. If Avery produces, then this episode would be a blip on the picture. I'm past this whole thing about expecting club I am a fan of to be full of choir individuals. That was not the case before, so why should be any difference now. Do I think Avery will play a large role in Rangers' success? No. I do think he is serviceable 3rd liner that would score some, play hard, will show up his presence when things get hot, and all things considered has a manageable contract for the role Tortorella has mind for him. This club is in big trouble if it needs Sean Avery to assume a larger role like playing on any of the 2 top lines. Has he injured anyone ala Matt Cooke? No. Has he said some stupid things? Absolutely.

Well, the Knicks were considered a joke and a big part of that was the off-court failures and headlines. I can't imagine that being argued. I have no idea if it mattered to ownership, but I for one wanted Isiah gone sooner rather than later and Marbury looked like and idiot. The NHL is not the NFL. The NHL can't absorb negativity the way the NFL can and even if they did does that exempt the athlete or should I lower my expectations of humanity because someone else is willing to do so?
You are 100% correct in that it does come down to the playing field. But (and a big but here), that doesn't mean that Avery's arrest is not negative to the organizations public persona. I like that Avery is a loudmouth and says some crass things. I like that he's a pain in the ass on the ice and he irritates the hell out of people. Pushing a cop and getting arrested and making the front page of MSN as "NY Ranger get arrested" is not a good thing. I don't think he or anyone else needs to be a choir boy, but he shouldn't be a dumshit either.
Look Dallas basically gave Avery away because they didn't want him representing their organization due to his off ice actions. NYR's took him back with open arms. I'm not saying one is right or wrong. I'm just saying we all are accountable and when you represent a high profile organization such as a professional sports club, act professional. He's not a 19 year old kid. Anyway it's only my opinion, and last I checked nobody at MSG gave a shit...

[fishmeister23]

Whaaaaat

Avery was having a party at his home in the Hollywood Hills a little after midnight, according to police. It was the second time officers had come to the residence after getting complaints of loud music.

When officers came to the house, Avery argued with police and attempted to go back inside his house, pushing an officer out of the way. Avery then slammed the door and refused to come out. Officers continued to talk to the 31-year-old, asking him to come out, but he refused and additional officers were called to the location.

[When] police then knocked again, and we're told the New York Rangers star came to his senses and opened up. According to law enforcement ... Avery was extremely cooperative after that, but was still booked for battery on a peace officer. He was taken to the Hollywood police station and is being held on $20,000 bail.

I'm kinda hungover, so I don't really have anything funny to say - I'll leave that to you guys.

[xcheck24]

It's being discussed in the offseason thread.

[fishmeister23]

Well fuck alls y'all, then.

[leedsy99]

Look Dallas basically gave Avery away because they didn't want him representing their organization due to his off ice actions.

I dispute this. Internally they never wanted him to begin with, they resented him and the undeserving contract that his novice (and now replaced) GM handed out, and his play with them was terrible. The off-ice stuff was an excuse to get rid of him. I don't want to reopen the debate about whether his treatment was justified or not, but his one off-ice problem with Dallas was a convenient way to eliminate a problem they created the very minute he signed his contract.

I think Jack's point is merely that the idea of a player's behavior being a blemish on an organization is a complete fabrication. Any Jets fans giving up their season tickets because they have a paroled felon on their roster? Did the Philadelphia Eagles feel any negative financial impact over signing Michael Vick? In terms of team impressions, no one cares what happens. They'll pay money just to boo the players. In that sense, the only things the Rangers should care about is whether is antics will hurt the team, because it's not going to hurt their bottom line.

[Nilan 666]

Consdering all the scrutiny he gets after a stupid comment I can only imagine how the refs are going to handle him now. Two minutes for looking at the puck. I can haz 82 game suspension?

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

Consdering all the scrutiny he gets after a stupid comment I can only imagine how the refs are going to handle him now. Two minutes for looking at the puck. I can haz 82 game suspension?

Wow, not even twenty four hours and we found a way to blame the refs instead of Avery. Bravo

[Eric]

I think it's worthy of it's own thread.

That's our Sean!

[Nilan 666]

Actually I'm making the case that he's going to be even more useless now.