Rangerland Forum Information

[VerdDogg]

oh. I thought you meant Zimmerman's call. Sorry.

If Cameron Poe lived in Florida, he never would have been on the plane to stop Cyrus The Virus.

[Puckforbrains]

That's why I hate these laws. Self-defense is self-defense. Just because someone is breaking into my house, that doesn't mean I have an innate right to murder them.

No you don't, but you should have an innate duty to protect your family. And it's been a long time, but I don't believe your a ninja.

Hope your never in the situation where you have to make that choice because you most likely forever miss a loved one but I'll be damned if I going to wait to find out of some asshole meth head who decided he wants to get into my house is armed or not. Someone coming through a window gets one loud, clear , concise verbal warning that I am armed and will shoot if need be.

If I were to walk into my house and there is an unarmed burglary in progress, there is no altercation, I hold him at gun point until the cops arrive. Without a gun, it's most likely a brutal fight to the death for one of us. In this situation, a gun saved a life.


FWIW - Zimmerman was wrong for what he did and should be punished for his crime. I don't agree with his approach, but I can objectively see how he felt the need to be vigilant - but he crossed lines and should have just waited for the police to arrive.

[Greatone]

http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_...20419_wmain.jpg

Warning: Zimmermans bloody head. Dont click if blood bothers you.

This post has been edited by Greatone: Apr 20 2012, 10:10 AM

[HDH]

Nothing to see here. No blood. Everyone move along.

[Hockey101]

Ouch.

[Greatone]

Nothing to see here. No blood. Everyone move along.

[Sed]

Martin was standing his ground!

[rightbug]

Nothing to see here. No blood. Everyone move along.

Zimmerman's bleeding head is not inconsistent with "Zimmerman follows Martin, accosts him, a struggle ensues, Martin ends up dead."

It's only by looking at all of the evidence and those pieces that can be established as fact that anyone will be able to piece together a reasonably accurate narrative. This is why there is a process.

[leetchie69]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...ttoWhatsNewsTop

[Knight of Dight]

In related news, a black Jacksonville woman was sentenced to 20 years by a jury today for aggravated assault because she fired a warning shot at her husband. The prosecutor was the same one from the Martin case.

The way her story goes, her husband was physically abusing her, so she went to leave and then realized she forgot her keys so she went back in the house and on the way she grabbed her handgun. Her husband then threatened to kill her, so she fired one warning shot hoping to scare him off. According to the prosecutor, the defendant deserved to be prosecuted because she fired in the direction of the room where her two children slept.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/flor....html?hpt=hp_t1

[steamroller]

What are you talking about, Its in the 911 transcript.

The transcript clearly states Zimmerman lost Martin when Martin ran. Transcript clearly states dispatcher suggested Zimmerman doesn't pursue and Zimmerman says OK. Transcript clearly states Zimmerman told dispatcher where his car was parked so the squad car can meet him. The transcript clearly states Zimmerman was going to meet the cops.

Doesnt the transcript actually say he wasnt going to meet them at his car? He never says hes going to wait at the car just meet them, and then requests a phone call so he can tell the cops where he was/went?

[Muno]

In related news, a black Jacksonville woman was sentenced to 20 years by a jury today for aggravated assault because she fired a warning shot at her husband. The prosecutor was the same one from the Martin case.

The way her story goes, her husband was physically abusing her, so she went to leave and then realized she forgot her keys so she went back in the house and on the way she grabbed her handgun. Her husband then threatened to kill her, so she fired one warning shot hoping to scare him off. According to the prosecutor, the defendant deserved to be prosecuted because she fired in the direction of the room where her two children slept.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/flor....html?hpt=hp_t1

Florida could be the weirdest state in the union. Moved there from NY and stayed for 3 years. People there are bugshit.

[Eric]

It's all the time they spend in the sun. It cooks their brains.

[Sed]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-574...sy-report-says/

[Knight of Dight]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-574...sy-report-says/

Am I going to hell because I laughed at that?

And I am still in disbelief that aggravated assault gets TWENTY FUCKING YEARS in Florida. How is that possible? In most states, fucking murder gets less than that.

[Hockey101]

What about the story out of Norfolk VA? That's f'ed up.

[Kusand]

What about the story out of Norfolk VA? That's f'ed up.

*Googles*

*Googles some more*

*Finds Bill O'Reilly piece covering something about "mob violence" in Norfolk*

*Finds piece covering O'Reilly's piece*

You COULD just link us to stuff.

[Greatone]

Why? The internet isn't trustworthy. Books are the only reliable resource.

[Sed]

Why? The internet isn't trustworthy. Books are the only reliable resource.

Books are for schnooks - if ya wanna be informed, you'd best read your cuneiform.

[Dr. D]

Why? The internet isn't trustworthy. Books are the only reliable resource.

Books are for schnooks - if ya wanna be informed, you'd best read your cuneiform.

How in the fuck do you come up with this shit at 1:12am? HOW?!

[Knight of Dight]

Why? The internet isn't trustworthy. Books are the only reliable resource.

Books are for schnooks - if ya wanna be informed, you'd best read your cuneiform.

How in the fuck do you come up with this shit at 1:12am? HOW?!

Lots of coffee without any additives.

[Hockey101]

What about the story out of Norfolk VA? That's f'ed up.

*Googles*

*Googles some more*

*Finds Bill O'Reilly piece covering something about "mob violence" in Norfolk*

*Finds piece covering O'Reilly's piece*

You COULD just link us to stuff.

I forgot to add the word "reporters", but look at the first news result from Google:

Why, it's not FoxNews!!!

[Puckforbrains]

In related news, a black Jacksonville woman was sentenced to 20 years by a jury today for aggravated assault because she fired a warning shot at her husband. The prosecutor was the same one from the Martin case.

The way her story goes, her husband was physically abusing her, so she went to leave and then realized she forgot her keys so she went back in the house and on the way she grabbed her handgun. Her husband then threatened to kill her, so she fired one warning shot hoping to scare him off. According to the prosecutor, the defendant deserved to be prosecuted because she fired in the direction of the room where her two children slept.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/11/justice/flor....html?hpt=hp_t1

Unfortunately for her, when it comes to firing a gun in Florida, warning shot or not, you fired it and you're responsible for it. Crazy law for sure.

[Nilan 666]

In other words make sure you kill the bastard or you'll do time.

[Puckforbrains]

In other words make sure you kill the bastard or you'll do time.

Not so cut and dry, but yeah - if she shoots and kills him, it would get uglier, but she may get off too. Seems like any other choice would have been or could have been less time. I'm sure she'll appeal.

At the minimum she should have at least gone for his knees.

[Knight of Dight]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/flor....html?hpt=hp_t1

So, it's looking more and more like Zimmerman's story was at least partially true and Trayvon was at least somewhat of a thug. Does that mean Zimmerman was in the right? No, he should have extricated himself after being told by the police to leave. But at this point, it's at least somewhat plausible that Zimmerman was not the aggressor. And even if he were, judging by the look of the injuries I'd say Trayvon was beating the shit out of him. If someone is beating you to a pulp and you have a gun on you, would you resort to shooting them to make it stop?

I think the charges ought to be reduced to manslaughter. He shouldn't get off unpunished because he precipitated the situation by following Trayvon, but I highly doubt he "cornered the defenseless Trayvon and then executed him in cold blood" like the media originally tried to spin it.





This post has been edited by Knight of Dight: May 17 2012, 07:07 PM

[Hockey101]

Martin had marijuana in system that night.

[leetchie69]

Martin had marijuana in system that night.

Definitely deserved to get shot at then..

[Hockey101]

Martin had marijuana in system that night.

Definitely deserved to get shot at then..

Why even say that? I mean, how does your mind process to conclude your thinking and posting that garbage? The guy was high and beat up a person. He should have gone to prison, not been shot. I just think that every person who made and designed to portray for this kid look like an innocent angel made him/herself look like an asshole, though.

[Kusand]

Why even say that? I mean, how does your mind process to conclude your thinking and posting that garbage? The guy was high and beat up a person. He should have gone to prison, not been shot. I just think that every person who made and designed to portray for this kid look like an innocent angel made him/herself look like an asshole, though.

Look like an asshole? Not really. The tox screen showed "traces." That doesn't carry any particular meaning. It could mean he just smoked, it could mean he'd had a joint the other night. It doesn't prove he was high.

And people being wrong about the details of the incident doesn't make Martin out to have been high and looking to beat someone up.

[Knight of Dight]

Why even say that? I mean, how does your mind process to conclude your thinking and posting that garbage? The guy was high and beat up a person. He should have gone to prison, not been shot. I just think that every person who made and designed to portray for this kid look like an innocent angel made him/herself look like an asshole, though.

Look like an asshole? Not really. The tox screen showed "traces." That doesn't carry any particular meaning. It could mean he just smoked, it could mean he'd had a joint the other night. It doesn't prove he was high.

And people being wrong about the details of the incident doesn't make Martin out to have been high and looking to beat someone up.

The only thing his having toked up proves is that he is not the innocent straight-A angel the media portrayed him as. Doesn't mean he is a monster or an asshole-- just that he is not an innocent little kid.

This post has been edited by Knight of Dight: May 18 2012, 01:33 AM

[Ebase]

Martin had marijuana in system that night.

Definitely deserved to get shot at then..

Why even say that? I mean, how does your mind process to conclude your thinking and posting that garbage? The guy was high and beat up a person. He should have gone to prison, not been shot. I just think that every person who made and designed to portray for this kid look like an innocent angel made him/herself look like an asshole, though.

Some people get so damn aggressive and hostile when they are smoking weed.

A skin split on the back of the head and a scratch on the nose to me hardly a beat down. Trayvon must have been one hell of a totally shitty street fighter to only inflict that damage.

[xcdudesquadloves...]

Why even say that? I mean, how does your mind process to conclude your thinking and posting that garbage? The guy was high and beat up a person. He should have gone to prison, not been shot. I just think that every person who made and designed to portray for this kid look like an innocent angel made him/herself look like an asshole, though.

Look like an asshole? Not really. The tox screen showed "traces." That doesn't carry any particular meaning. It could mean he just smoked, it could mean he'd had a joint the other night. It doesn't prove he was high.

And people being wrong about the details of the incident doesn't make Martin out to have been high and looking to beat someone up.

The only thing his having toked up proves is that he is not the innocent straight-A angel the media portrayed him as. Doesn't mean he is a monster or an asshole-- just that he is not an innocent little kid.

Didn't realize that you can't get straight A's and be a nice guy after smoking Marijuana. Clearly I was doing it wrong during my first 2 years of College with my near 3.4 GPA and general niceties that I tried to pass around.

EDIT: And most people never knew I smoked during that time. I didn't really tell any one besides my friends who I was smoking with. Just because he toked up once doesn't mean shit.

This post has been edited by xcdudesquadloves91!!!: May 18 2012, 03:35 AM

[Puckforbrains]

Didn't realize that you can't get straight A's and be a nice guy after smoking Marijuana. Clearly I was doing it wrong during my first 2 years of College with my near 3.4 GPA and general niceties that I tried to pass around.

EDIT: And most people never knew I smoked during that time. I didn't really tell any one besides my friends who I was smoking with. Just because he toked up once doesn't mean shit.

You've grown up right before our very eyes.


Trayvon was a thug, so is Zimmerman. Trayvon is dead and Zimmerman should pay the price for it. Weed has nothing to do with it - except as KoD pointed out, Trayvon was no angel.

They did right by arresting him, I just think it will be tough to prosecute on the charges they filed.

[leedsy99]

Trayvon was a thug, so is Zimmerman.

I think we should ease up on these conclusions. What's emerging through the release of information is that what happened that night is not easily portrayed in black and white.

My problem with the whole situation is this -- granted I'm not following the story closely anymore, but where is the defense for the police right now? They became the enemy in all of this for seemingly trying to cover up something which was, in fact, a pretty standard investigation for them. A classic defense tactic is the "rush to judgment" argument, but in this case it seems like the process functioned about as well as it could. But pundits and media celebrities will continue to pound their chests about how they made a difference in getting "justice" accomplished. What about the hundreds of people that actually did their jobs correctly, like the do almost every day, that achieved the same result?

[leetchie69]

Martin had marijuana in system that night.

Definitely deserved to get shot at then..

Why even say that? I mean, how does your mind process to conclude your thinking and posting that garbage? The guy was high and beat up a person. He should have gone to prison, not been shot. I just think that every person who made and designed to portray for this kid look like an innocent angel made him/herself look like an asshole, though.

Your response is the exact reason I posted that. People are going to jump straight to "he was high" when he obviously was not.

As the facts have come out they obviously show that there was a fight but we don't know the circumstances around it.
Maybe Zimmerman flashed his gun and Martin was trying to get the upper hand, who knows...

Using common sense though...from what I can tell...Zimmerman obviously didn't like the black kids in hoodies walking around his neighborhood, he FOLLOWED Martin.

There is no indication that Martin was looking to start something with anyone, especially walking around by himself.

It is hard not to paint Zimmerman as someone looking "for a reason"

This post has been edited by leetchie69: May 18 2012, 03:04 PM

[Sed]

Didn't realize that you can't get straight A's and be a nice guy after smoking Marijuana. Clearly I was doing it wrong during my first 2 years of College with my near 3.4 GPA and general niceties that I tried to pass around.

EDIT: And most people never knew I smoked during that time. I didn't really tell any one besides my friends who I was smoking with. Just because he toked up once doesn't mean shit.

I have never been more proud of you than I am right now.

[Nilan 666]

You ever seen someone combine pot and skittles? Even The Hulk is scared of those fuckers.

[Nilan 666]

[/quote]

Didn't realize that you can't get straight A's and be a nice guy after smoking Marijuana. Clearly I was doing it wrong during my first 2 years of College with my near 3.4 GPA and general niceties that I tried to pass around.

EDIT: And most people never knew I smoked during that time. I didn't really tell any one besides my friends who I was smoking with. Just because he toked up once doesn't mean shit.
[/quote]
You mean you're this hyperactive while high, Jesus fucking christ!

[Puckforbrains]

Trayvon was a thug, so is Zimmerman.

I think we should ease up on these conclusions. What's emerging through the release of information is that what happened that night is not easily portrayed in black and white.

My problem with the whole situation is this -- granted I'm not following the story closely anymore, but where is the defense for the police right now? They became the enemy in all of this for seemingly trying to cover up something which was, in fact, a pretty standard investigation for them. A classic defense tactic is the "rush to judgment" argument, but in this case it seems like the process functioned about as well as it could. But pundits and media celebrities will continue to pound their chests about how they made a difference in getting "justice" accomplished. What about the hundreds of people that actually did their jobs correctly, like the do almost every day, that achieved the same result?

I didn't think this was an issue any longer. My impression is that once the charges were filed and Zimmerman was arrested, all of that was sort of swept under the rug.


The more I watch and see, the more I think that Trayvon saw Zimmerman following him, confronted him, started beating his ass, then Zimmerman pulled his weapon and shot him.

Does Zimmerman have a legal obligation to follow a 911 Operators instructions or might it as well have been me?

How do you determine the aggressor?

Is 2nd Degree murder going to stick? Here is the Florida statue on 2nd degree murder:

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),
(b) Arson,
© Sexual battery,
(d) Robbery,
(e) Burglary,
(f) Kidnapping,
(g) Escape,
(h) Aggravated child abuse,
(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
(j) Aircraft piracy,
(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,
(l) Carjacking,
(m) Home-invasion robbery,
(n) Aggravated stalking,
(o) Murder of another human being,
(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or
(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,

by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

If I read this correctly, Section 3 could be summed up by stating, if you kill someone while committing a felony, you get the 2nd degree charge.

Section 2 doesn't seem to apply but maybe Leedsy can clarify that. Or HDH . This is where the self defense argument comes into play and the initial aggressor needs to be determined. Thats tough because if you get some pro-gun/NRA members, they may decide in favor of whatever decision won't possibly affect the existing gun laws. On the other hand, you get some moms or dads who sympathize with the Martin family, bye bye George.

[Kusand]

If I read this correctly, Section 3 could be summed up by stating, if you kill someone while committing a felony, you get the 2nd degree charge.

Section 2 doesn't seem to apply but maybe Leedsy can clarify that. Or HDH . This is where the self defense argument comes into play and the initial aggressor needs to be determined. Thats tough because if you get some pro-gun/NRA members, they may decide in favor of whatever decision won't possibly affect the existing gun laws. On the other hand, you get some moms or dads who sympathize with the Martin family, bye bye George.

Florida's aggravated stalking law is apparently:

"engaging in a willful and malicious course of conduct that continuously harass a person with a credible threat, either expressed or implied, that places the victim in fear that they will suffer bodily harm, injury or even death."

Maybe they're planning to argue that?

[Charlie]

The idea that being high on weed makes someone aggressive is beyond preposterous.

I stopped smoking because getting high just made me want to go to sleep.

Also, traces of weed in his system does not mean he was high. You can smoke and test positive for a few weeks after.

If there was PCP in his blood I would be interested. But, considering weed is about the most innocuous thing in the world, color me uninterested.

[Puckforbrains]

If I read this correctly, Section 3 could be summed up by stating, if you kill someone while committing a felony, you get the 2nd degree charge.

Section 2 doesn't seem to apply but maybe Leedsy can clarify that. Or HDH . This is where the self defense argument comes into play and the initial aggressor needs to be determined. Thats tough because if you get some pro-gun/NRA members, they may decide in favor of whatever decision won't possibly affect the existing gun laws. On the other hand, you get some moms or dads who sympathize with the Martin family, bye bye George.

Florida's aggravated stalking law is apparently:

"engaging in a willful and malicious course of conduct that continuously harass a person with a credible threat, either expressed or implied, that places the victim in fear that they will suffer bodily harm, injury or even death."

Maybe they're planning to argue that?

Thanks for looking that up - was going to check that as it seemed the only plausible offense on the list.

[Puckforbrains]

The idea that being high on weed makes someone aggressive is beyond preposterous.

I stopped smoking because getting high just made me want to go to sleep.

Also, traces of weed in his system does not mean he was high. You can smoke and test positive for a few weeks after.

If there was PCP in his blood I would be interested. But, considering weed is about the most innocuous thing in the world, color me uninterested.

1- Some weed will give you a euphoric high - not a tired/sleepy high - aggressive, probably not though.

2- Your smoking the wrong weed

3- Depends on how regularly you smoke. If you smoke every day, several times a day - 30 days to get completely out of your system. Less if you have a higher metabolism.

4- agreed however it erases the innocent, child like image the media has portrayed of Trayvon.

[Knight of Dight]

The idea that being high on weed makes someone aggressive is beyond preposterous.

I stopped smoking because getting high just made me want to go to sleep.

Also, traces of weed in his system does not mean he was high. You can smoke and test positive for a few weeks after.

If there was PCP in his blood I would be interested. But, considering weed is about the most innocuous thing in the world, color me uninterested.

Nobody was claiming that he attacked Zimmerman because he was high, at least I don't think they were. And to claim that weed makes EVERYONE lethargic is a bit of a simplification-- yes, that is a typical effect of it but different people react differently to drugs and also different kids of weed probably produce slightly different "highs." Regardless, the only relevance the weed has in this case is that it gives the pro-Zimmerman factions a little bit of ammo to use against the leftist media who claimed Trayvon was a perfect, innocent child. It erodes the "benefit of the doubt" just a little bit.

This post has been edited by Knight of Dight: May 18 2012, 12:09 PM

[leedsy99]

Regardless, the only relevance the weed has in this case is that it gives the pro-Zimmerman factions a little bit of ammo to use against the leftist media who claimed Trayvon was a perfect, innocent child. It erodes the "benefit of the doubt" just a little bit.

I don't like the term "pro-Zimmerman" because it suggests that someone supports what he did, rather than acknowledging that he may not have committed a criminal offense. But regardless, there is much more relevance, at least to defense attorneys, than simply "dirtying up" the victim -- which one would doubt the defense attorneys will even do, because the victim in this case was a kid holding a bag of candy. The better relevance was the fact that George Zimmerman was right when he said, "I think he's on drugs." Now, arguably to a jury, his perceptions and suspicions of Martin are somewhat justified, because he seems to have pretty good evaluative skills. Using this to the larger point, he may been accurate as far as his presentation of Martin as a threat, not to mention that Martin's impairment may have made him less aware of the actual harm/fear he was causing to Zimmerman.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I think I agree with Leedsy's position on this whole thing.

I think what some people are missing here, and Leedsy brought up, him smoking is not really character issue. It partially is, but it's more an issue that of proving that Trayvon partially wasn't in the right state of mind at the time.

If you want to argue that weed doesn't make you aggressive, fine, but you can't argue that it doesn't impair the way you think and act. I mean, if he was high, it's possible he had a heightened sense of paranoia, which caused him to act in a manner he might normally not have.

Also like Leedsy, I don't like the term pro-zimmerman at all, because I'm not.

[bloodorange]

NYTimes link: Martin Spoke of ‘Crazy and Creepy’ Man Following Him, Friend Says

[leetchie69]

[jkman61494]

I am kind of surprised no one has seen this.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-...02#.UAi87fXTyuI

"I do wish that there was something, anything I could have done that would have put me in the position that I wouldn't have to take his life," Zimmerman told Sean Hannity on Fox News Channel. "I'm sorry that this happened. I hate to think that because of this incident, because of my actions, that it's polarized and divided America."

Earlier in the interview, when Hannity asked Zimmerman if he regretted the specific actions of carrying a gun or getting out of his car to follow Martin that February night, the neighborhood watchman said that he didn't.

"I feel that it was all God's plan, and for me to second guess it or judge it," he said, trailing off.

What I find ironic, is he is talking about his actions polarizing America while speaking on the Sean Hannity show.

To me, this quote seems about as bad as Sandusky on Costas.

Soooooo....in his belief, God wanted Trayvon dead?