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[rightbug]

So, what did people think?

As I mentioned in the Watching thread, I loved it. Maybe not quite up the level of Alien and Blade Runner but not far off the mark to my mind and certainly more ambitious thematically than Alien. I also thought he managed to hit the same balance of sci-fi and horror that he hit with Alien. (The scene in the bio-pod, in particular, was inspired.)

Obviously the stars of the show were Dr Shaw and David and I loved the comparisons and contrasts between their journeys. For Dr Shaw there is the tension between her faith and her search for our origins. I loved the interaction between her and David where he takes her cross and tells her she must feel like her God has abandoned her. Unlike other movies where characters have their faith tested, in this one it was really a fair (if cruel) question. I love the fact that, in the end, even after everything that has happened, she continues to believe but still takes off with David in search of answers to questions that are probably left unanswered. (It fits well with the allegory of Prometheus, who not only created man out of clay, but who represents " human striving, particularly the quest for scientific knowledge, and the risk of overreaching or unintended consequences.") I thought for sure, when David talked about his ability to fly these ships and the possibility of heading back to Earth, that she was going to hunt him down and deactivate him.

David, meanwhile, was completely fascinating to me because this whole idea of artificial people striving to discover or create their own morality and sense of humanity is one that I've been interested in since I was a kid. Thematically this all ties in well with Blade Runner and I thought I read somewhere that this movie was going to possibly tie that movie's universe in with the Alien universe but I guess that was a rumor. (It would have been cool if David had been created by the Tyrell Corporation but maybe that would create plot holes.) I love that he had his own agenda and that he resents his creator. The anti-android prejudice that we see in the other movies was in full effect here as most of the charters were pretty nasty to him, mocking his lack of humanity, feelings and soul, even as he was yearning for all three.

I thought Charlize Theron's character was a little one dimensional and mustache twirling but I did like the family dynamics between her, her father and David. The father's plot-line was pretty obvious and trite but it served to advance the more interesting plot-lines so I can accept it. I do hate, however, that they used Guy Pearce in old man makeup instead of an actual old man. That's pet peeve of mine as it always takes me right out of the story when I see that. It seemed particularly pointless in this case. At one point, before the credits rolled, I thought maybe it was Michael Fasbinder under all of the makeup which would have been kind of cool (with Weyland creating David in his own image) but, that not being the case, it was just distracting.

I also wish they had cut the very final scene with the Alien hatching. I think they had left all of the clues for anyone who is a fan of the franchise and spelling it out like that felt like a bit of an insult to the audience.

Thoughts?

This post has been edited by Sed: Jun 18 2012, 10:15 PM

[Nilan 666]

That was a flaming bag of dogshit wrapped in a clusterfuck. When doing a prequel Mr. Scott hire a screenwriter who saw the original next time. The script was a morass of continuity errors and plot holes combined with a team of scientists behaving in the stupidest possible fashion at every turn. I can't lie I was so fucking happy when Holloway got burnt to shit by Charlize because he was an albatross dragging the movie down every chance he got.

That said the movie is almost worth watching because Michael Fassbender is amazing. The most remarkable part of his performance to me was his body language. He moved around in a way that was almost totally unnatural, combined with his aloof yet childlike nature he was channeling Jeremy Irons in Dead Ringers.

I liked Theron though she wasn't the most well rounded character, that said the scene where you find out Weyland is her father was one of the most predictable groan-inducing things I've ever seen. Shit they took more from Empire Strikes Back than Alien.

[rightbug]

It's funny, based on the thread happening on another message board I frequent, this definitely seems to be becoming a love it or hate it movie. Prometheus is the new Inception.

This post has been edited by rightbug: Jun 10 2012, 11:25 AM

[Greatone]

Saw it today. I left a little confused but this is coming from a guy who hasn't seen any of the Alien movies.

So the engineers visited Earth at various points in our history and explained where they are from(cave paintings)? Why would they point us to an empty planet outside of a supposed military outpost? And what was the timeline on when they decided to destroy us with the Alien virus?

[rightbug]

So the engineers visited Earth at various points in our history and explained where they are from(cave paintings)? Why would they point us to an empty planet outside of a supposed military outpost?

Yeah, I thought that was a plot hole. The cave paintings were supposed to be from a time before they turned on us but they were pointing us to a biological weapons fascility rather than their home planet.

And what was the timeline on when they decided to destroy us with the Alien virus?

A little over 2000 years prior to the start of the movie. They never give us a reason but I think that David holds some clues. He was created in our image and yet his morals are distinctly alien from ours. He was created by humans and yet the humans in the movie all seem disgusted by his imperfections. The suggestion in the movie was that the Engineers had become disgusted by us. (About the time we killed the son of God.)

Also, the whole idea of people over reaching comes into play a lot. In myth Prometheus created us but the transgression that he was punished for was giving us the power of gods. When the Engineer recognizes David as an artificial construct, he becomes enraged and beats Weyland to death with David's head. And then, of course, things come full circle with David playing God. One of the reasons we find David monsterous is that he plays God with Hollaway. Why? Because he could. (That great exchange between David and Hollayway -- "Why did you humans create me?" "Because we could." "Imagine how disappointed you would be if you met your creators and they gave you the same answer.")

[Tex]

loved the nature of the back story. Hated sitting through that screenplay.
now, to the discussion group content,

Okay, so, if I read it right, Prometheus lands on LV223. It sure looks like it could be LV426, but okay. The ship found on LV426 had a pilot in his seat with his chest burst. This show ends with the pilot removed from his seat and suit with The Mama apparently bursting from his chest. One of my co-watchers this morning theorized that as the "engineers" lab was being overtaken by the weaponized acid-blooded eating machines, some "engineer" units may have escaped in similar horseshoe ships, one of which crashed on LV426 and became the origin site of the eventual alien encounters that we all (except Greatone ) know. Or, did the fucknut really just mislabel the shit and forget everything from the first movie which would be dissected by the core fans (like this)? Glad I only paid 6 bucks.

[Sed]

I went in not thinking of it as any kind of prequel and treating it as a stand-alone story, and really enjoyed it.

This post has been edited by Sed: Jun 10 2012, 07:18 PM

[Papagolash]

It's funny, based on the thread happening on another message board I frequent, this definitely seems to be becoming a love it or hate it movie. Prometheus is the new Inception.

No way, Inception was amazing. Also everywhere and everyone I'm seeing is this movie was good, not great, ehhh ok, and terrible. I'm in the "ehhh it was decent" range. My gf said it was a movie you'd see on SyFy, but with more gore. I'm rarely seeing anyone say that it was amazing, or people loving or hating it.

The movie itself seemed to kinda be boring, and really didn't pick up in action, though it did get a lot of people involved in discussion via the storytelling and unanswered questions it left. I'm wondering what we're going to see in October, maybe a teaser trailer for Prometheus 2?

That whole c-section scene was just overly stupid. She fights off 2 people and then goes to the machine to get the new face hugger removed, the hell happened to the 2 people in the 1st place? She didn't knock them out, why did they stop chasing her? Also she's running around and doubling over in pain, and no one is wondering why? Then she's seemingly better by the end of the movie? bleh.

David was by far the best character in the movie, that actor is amazing.

So, the Engineer at the beginning, what was he doing? I think they were showing how they created life on a planet, or perhaps earth. Interesting to see the black ooze at the beginning of the movie was to create life, yet the black ooze in the containers created evil and the destroyers of life. This movie makes me hope there's a sequel or two, would love to see where this is going to lead to.

[Tex]

don't get me wrong, I totally love the spray-on costuming for Noomi Rapace and Charlize Theron. Yum. Otherwise, I was intrigued only by David (wondering if he had any standard Robot Law programming or was going to go full evil at any moment) and Shaw. No characters beyond them really mattered to me. Hell, you already know most are gonna end up dead, but when it became "martyr time" it was really difficult to give a shit for those who chose the hero finish.

[rightbug]

Okay, so, if I read it right, Prometheus lands on LV223. It sure looks like it could be LV426, but okay. The ship found on LV426 had a pilot in his seat with his chest burst. This show ends with the pilot removed from his seat and suit with The Mama apparently bursting from his chest. One of my co-watchers this morning theorized that as the "engineers" lab was being overtaken by the weaponized acid-blooded eating machines, some "engineer" units may have escaped in similar horseshoe ships, one of which crashed on LV426 and became the origin site of the eventual alien encounters that we all (except Greatone ) know. Or, did the fucknut really just mislabel the shit and forget everything from the first movie which would be dissected by the core fans (like this)? Glad I only paid 6 bucks.

I think it was intentionally a different planet. This wasn't supposed to be a direct prequel, just a movie set in the same universe. The only thing that struck me as a little odd is that I remember the space jockey as being considerably larger in alien.

Otherwise, I was intrigued only by David (wondering if he had any standard Robot Law programming or was going to go full evil at any moment) and Shaw. No characters beyond them really mattered to me.

Agreed. I think it's their movie and I'm okay with that. I did like Idris Elba.

(wondering if he had any standard Robot Law programming)

Definitely not and that's one of the things I loved. Shades of Blade Runner.

Also, Greatone, you really, really need to see Alien followed by Aliens. And then stop their. After that the other movies in the franchise are terrible. But those two are classics for a reason.

[rightbug]

No way, Inception was amazing. Also everywhere and everyone I'm seeing is this movie was good, not great, ehhh ok, and terrible. I'm in the "ehhh it was decent" range. My gf said it was a movie you'd see on SyFy, but with more gore. I'm rarely seeing anyone say that it was amazing, or people loving or hating it.

The critics whose opinions I tend to trust (Ebert, Roeper, Scott, Travers) all seem to love it. I've also seen a lot of people reacting like Nilan did on another message board.

[Greatone]

Also, Greatone, you really, really need to see Alien followed by Aliens. And then stop their. After that the other movies in the franchise are terrible. But those two are classics for a reason.

Tonight is "Alien" movie night in the Greatone household.

[Paul Smachetti]

There were more than 2 Alien movies? Are you counting "Alien v. Predator"?

[Tex]

Agreed. I think it's their movie and I'm okay with that. Shades of Blade Runner.

Well, I figured David was "3 laws safe", but particularly programmed to accelerate anything that could benefit the master's goals. However, once he lost purpose, I wondered if he'd seek new purpose and render aid to Shaw. That could be a pretty cool story, if she's able to affect repairs on him, AND, if she's able to survive the interstellar travel with no apparent "human" camping supplies, as it were. Perhaps she loaded-up on groceries before they took another ship?

I did like Idris Elba.

Shades of the deleted scenes from Alien, where "what happens in space, stays in space". But hey, if you can score Vickers, you take a shot!

Also, Greatone, you really, really need to see Alien followed by Aliens. And then stop there. After that the other movies in the franchise are terrible. But those two are classics for a reason.

2nd.

Paul, there were 4 Ripley movies before the Predator debacles. Numbers 3 & 4 were just uninspired to awful.

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

I always hated that the sequel to Alien was called Aliens.

[Sed]

There are elements of the Fincher movie that I can appreciate now, but I remember when I saw Alien 3 in the theater wanting my money back at the end.

The franchise will always have a special place in my heart, though - the original was the first horror flick that I ever saw.

[leedsy99]

Also, Greatone, you really, really need to see Alien followed by Aliens. And then stop their. After that the other movies in the franchise are terrible. But those two are classics for a reason.

Tonight is "Alien" movie night in the Greatone household.

This is what I did on Saturday night with my girlfriend, who never saw any of the Alien movies. She loved both. One tip: Aliens makes a director's cut that Cameron describes in advance as "the complete journey." Director's cuts are almost always terrible, but this one actually ruins the movie with some unnecessary foreshadowing scenes.

Alien 3, as I recall, was interesting for the innovative camera uses and not a horrible action movie, but it adds nothing to the lore.

[Tex]

Alien 3, as I recall, was interesting for the innovative camera uses and not a horrible action movie, but it adds nothing to the lore.

2nd.

[Paul Smachetti]

So should my wife and I see Prometheus for our weekly date night film or go next door and listen to my wife's friend's Celtic band?

[Tex]

So should my wife and I see Prometheus for our weekly date night film or go next door and listen to my wife's friend's Celtic band?

NOT a date night movie. Go Celtic.

[Nilan 666]

Depends on if you want a divorce or not.

[leedsy99]

Saw Prometheus tonight. I wasn't polarized by it like others, but I didn't find it to be philosophically fascinating either. In fact, I think that over-reaching in this regard is what ultimately kills the movie. (And if you think I'm wrong, there were six other people in the theater tonight with us, so I think the sacrifice for depth over entertainment is hurting it financially.) My comparison to it is Kubrick's 2001, which was visually stunning and philosophically stirring, but lacked the simple elements of compelling storytelling. I think this is the hardest thing to accomplish in movie-making. The original Alien stands up to the test of time because it never abandons the things that keep your attention locked on the screen. This movie will not. You can watch it a few times before it gets completely lost in a sea of other ambitious movies that don't deliver on their promise.

Just to contrast my take on it with Rightbug's, consider this interpretation of his favorite exchange: "Why did you humans create me?" "Because we could." "Imagine how disappointed you would be if you met your creators and they gave you the same answer." Well, um, no. Humans created machines/androids for utility. And the only reason we would destroy them is out of fear. So if there is a parallel there, the movie fails to develop it. So I don't know. If they wanted to prequel the Alien franchise, there could have been a better movie. And if they wanted a separate tale -- which is what I think -- there was a better way to do that do.

[Nilan 666]

Honestly, this seemed like a dumb guy's idea of a smart movie.

[rightbug]

Honestly, this seemed like a dumb guy's idea of a smart movie.

Hey now.

[rightbug]

This is a good, balanced discussion of the movie by the guy who did those detailed Star Wars deconstructions:

http://blip.tv/play/AYL6nkUC.html

Nilan, skip to 17:20 for some perspective. This movie may have been flawed but I would rather see an ambitious, gorgeous movie with major flaws than a steaming pile of dog-shit like Battleship. Going back to my Inception comparison, Inception had way too much exposition, paper thin characters and some fairly significant plot holes but it was still one of my favorite movies of the year.

[leedsy99]

I don't want to dissect the plot gaps, but this was bugging me all night. The two geologists, who one would assume would be previously screened for the mission, given that it cost three trillion dollars to finance, freak out over the first extraterrestrial (dead) encounter. Really? They weren't briefed about possible extraterrestrial encounters? So then they get lost on the way back, in a semi-circular ship? And these fearful scientists then wander into the scary looking room with the oozing containers? Come on.

This isn's so much of a plot gap as it is bad writing. It bothers me that smart movie people try to pull the wool over their viewers' eyes like this, hoping that they can cover themselves with "Hey, look! An alien!" Or the fact that another chief scientist will let his guard down by getting drunk after making the most important discovery in the history of humanity. Bad writing to me is when you need Character A to go from one point/place to another, so you make up something unbelieveable in the hope that people won't notice due to what is about to happen next. And this movie was riddled with it.

[rightbug]

I somewhat agree but, at the same time, this complaint is sort of like saying, "People in horror movies behave irrationally!" or "Scientists in movies are not like real-life scientists!" On some levels, these are movie conventions. Having said that, yeah, a superior movies manages to avoid these conventions, or at least hang a lampshade on them. (Have people seen Cabin in The Woods?)

[SorryaboutthatWh...]

This is a good, balanced discussion of the movie by the guy who did those detailed Star Wars deconstructions:

http://blip.tv/play/AYL6nkUC.html

Nilan, skip to 17:20 for some perspective. This movie may have been flawed but I would rather see an ambitious, gorgeous movie with major flaws than a steaming pile of dog-shit like Battleship. Going back to my Inception comparison, Inception had way too much exposition, paper thin characters and some fairly significant plot holes but it was still one of my favorite movies of the year.

So, it seems like one of the biggest peaves based on that video is, why didn't he just make this separate from the Alien franchise? Why did this have to be part of it?

I haven't seen it yet as it literally holds no interest for me, but one of the things I kept thinking with the marketing was "why is this attached to Alien at all"

It seems that many people immediately have a disconnect with the film right off the bat because of it.

[Tex]

guh, I'm gonna be all over the place with these points. sorry. WOT.

I see a really advanced ship piloted by very casual "Oh yeah, space flight? I do that shit..." kind of guys. This is not some First Human Deep Space Travel vessel run by government pilots (astronauts) and scientists. The interstellar travel tech had to have been around for a long time already when the old guy put this mission together. Described in the accepted lore are statements about "300 surveyed worlds" and descriptions of casual sex with aliens. Nobody trained in space geology should have gotten the willies over the initial contact event. Sure, once the worms got nasty, yeah, run like hell and scream like little girls, but otherwise, that character flameout was pretty lame writing. Could have spent that time showing more of the crew and their captain and why they'd not bail out when the voyage home was getting canceled. Hard to buy-in at the end with the limited crew back-story.

Back to David. He was clearly designed to interpret the alien symbols and possibly even speak to them. I'm curious as to how he developed the plan to incite the alien birth (or why, even). I mean, it may not have been too much of a stretch to assume that Holloway would boink Shaw at some point. But, to connect installing the alien debris in Holloway and assuming it would generate a valid mutated gizwad which would then form properly into an alien specimen in an otherwise sterile uterus? How does that get put together? Maybe deleted scenes will reveal David's modus and information paths.

To the concept of LV223 being a weapons lab. Creator's Privilege includes erasing the chalk board. Why do it by having your "pets" brutally devoured by something that could just as easily kill YOU? Why not just, I dunno, take off and nuke the site from orbit? Why the elaborate mess? Are they just that fucking bored, superior beings and all?

If, in fact, LV223 was in fact a weapons lab, it appears that things went very wrong there and wiped out all but the sentinel who managed to remain alive in stasis with intent to "deploy" regardless of what happened to the lab residents in those final hours. Also, it seemed clear that the lab's "security footage" of the final hours was intended as a training device for whomever might discover the installation. David executed that protocol with robotic precision, but who knew it simply meant that if Earthlings ever arrived, they would also be pressing their own erase button.
"So, let's make these little animal things on this planet and turn them loose. If they ever figure out how to find us, we have a self-destruct built in. Sound good?" Kind of a sad, cruel creator, eh? Would such superior beings eventually become that way out of boredom?

The way the sentinel responds to being awakened and spoken to is really curious. I guess he did pretty good not to puke everywhere like most others do when pulled from hypersleep. But right away, he went into a mode of "my last orders were to deploy these canned-monsters to Earth if they wake me up." For superior beings, to not allow for any curiosity by the sentinel seems odd. I mean, I'd want to have a look at whoever decoded my sleep box. The sentinel was clearly a soldier and not a scientist.

I like Shaw as the new Ripley. Young, hot, smart, motivated... What's not to love? I'm very much interested in her possible stories seeking The Makers. No need to have the "aliens" at this point any more. It would be about why Earth was given a shot, but only so far before having the plug pulled on the project. Maybe there was a conflict among "the makers" on the morality of sparking life then leaving plans in place for wiping it back out. Maybe humans were designed to simply be interstellar terra-formers for some other race. To me that concept as a sound business plan falls short because of how long it would take to be effective on a large enough scale. I guess if you're a few galaxies away and you arrange to have "foreign" galaxies terra-formed to be ready by the time your race needs those planets, it works out, but jeez. No easier way?

I think I just want the story to matter so desperately, that I'm thinking way beyond some lame-o writer's effort to have some semi-partial nudity and gore-laden violence for a two hour ticket fee collection device. A movie made for the money and not for any greater purpose to the fans. Fans like me want something cool and thought provoking. This falls FAR short, unless they continue the story. I think David and Shaw as a team would be pretty cool.

again, sorry about the WOT. hell, I've forgotten half of what I set out to write in here. so, umm, you're welcome?

[leedsy99]

I haven't seen it yet as it literally holds no interest for me, but one of the things I kept thinking with the marketing was "why is this attached to Alien at all"

I went to see it because I thought it was an Alien prequel. I didn't expect something routine like "Hey, where did those monsters come from" but I did like the idea that the ship rising in the trailer was the same type that was found crashed at the beginning of Alien. They sold a ticket to me because of this. Otherwise I see it as another decent sci-fi movie that I can wait until DVD for.

Oddly, the more I see it deconstructed (and deconstruct myself), it becomes both interesting and more frustrating. For example, my interpretation of the first scenes is that the engineers created life on earth through their own sacrifice, somehow unraveling their own genetic material into primordial black ooze that triggered our own evolutionary process. But their destructive motives at the end? How do we know this to be true? It's only speculation that the ship was a bioweapon facility. The hostility of the one came only after the android spoke to him in a language no one else understood, so we only assume that David did a fair translation and didn't say something like "We've come to overtake you." And it's David still who tells everyone that they intend to return to Earth to destroy everything. These are all pretty interesting points, except without any answers, it's all merely exercise. And unfortunately there isn't a memorable movie/story around this to give it much more foundation.

I'm not particularly liking this new "Lost" method of storytelling, where the journey overtakes the destination.

[rightbug]

I'll play, not for the sake of being contrary or defensive, but just because I enjoy discussing this stuff...

I see a really advanced ship piloted by very casual "Oh yeah, space flight? I do that shit..." kind of guys. This is not some First Human Deep Space Travel vessel run by government pilots (astronauts) and scientists. The interstellar travel tech had to have been around for a long time already when the old guy put this mission together. Described in the accepted lore are statements about "300 surveyed worlds" and descriptions of casual sex with aliens. Nobody trained in space geology should have gotten the willies over the initial contact event. Sure, once the worms got nasty, yeah, run like hell and scream like little girls, but otherwise, that character flameout was pretty lame writing.

My impression was not that they were freaked out by the existence of aliens but by the eerie, ghost-like playback of these aliens panicking as shit went majorly wrong. Indeed, for all of the complaints about people behaving irrationally, under the circumstances, their initial reactions may have been the most rational. "We're on an alien planet, we rushed out to check this place out before sunset with little preparation, we're in a dark and mysterious tomb-like structure and we just saw evidence that something pretty horrific happened here. Maybe it's time to back off and think about this a bit."

Now, their actions after that are a little harder to explain. Why do they get lost, especially given the geologist was the one with the tools for mapping the place. Why, after having the shit scared about of them with reports of a glitch that may or may not be registering life, do they enter the very tomb that they were at such pains to avoid the first time. And why does the biologist suddenly become fascinated by the alien life he meets when he was very alert to the threat initially.

Could have spent that time showing more of the crew and their captain and why they'd not bail out when the voyage home was getting canceled. Hard to buy-in at the end with the limited crew back-story.

Their motivations made sense to me. The captain was portrayed as a pragmatic guy who does not get caught up in the great scientific or philosophical questions and who further does not care about corporate scheming. He is paid to be a ship captain and he does that job as best as he is capable of. When Shaw presses him on his beliefs, we find that he is a humanist. He cares about his the welfare of the people under his charge but he also recognizes that he has a greater responsibility to the people back on earth. Shaw and the scientists got themselves into this mess. The Weylands got themselves into this mess. But the people back home, they didn't ask for any of this and the captain is not going to have the eradication of our planet on his shoulders. His crew members are given a choice -- Save yourselves or sacrifice yourselves for the greater good. They chose the noble path for the same reason that a soldier might do the same.

Sacrifice was another major theme of the movie, particularly sacrifice that gives life. You've got the Engineer in the opening scene. (Ritual or practical? I'm not sure it matters.) You've got Halloway sacrificing himself by fire to spare the rest of the crew his fate (essentially granting them life). You've got the life cycle of the aliens (which Shaw rejects). You've got Weyland rejecting this moral code ("Kings die, it is the order of things.") And you've got the Captain and remaining crew sacrificing themselves so that Earth can live.

Back to David. He was clearly designed to interpret the alien symbols and possibly even speak to them. I'm curious as to how he developed the plan to incite the alien birth (or why, even).

Because he could, is the short answer. More in a second...

I mean, it may not have been too much of a stretch to assume that Holloway would boink Shaw at some point. But, to connect installing the alien debris in Holloway and assuming it would generate a valid mutated gizwad which would then form properly into an alien specimen in an otherwise sterile uterus? How does that get put together?

I don't think he did know that would happen. I think he was genuinely surprised when he saw the results of the ultrasound. I think, on some levels, he was simply curious. It was science un-tethered from human morality (which is one of the movies central themes). It was also an act of hubris. Man (or artificial man) playing god. It was also spite towards the species that created him but thinks so little of him.

To the concept of LV223 being a weapons lab. Creator's Privilege includes erasing the chalk board. Why do it by having your "pets" brutally devoured by something that could just as easily kill YOU? Why not just, I dunno, take off and nuke the site from orbit? Why the elaborate mess? Are they just that fucking bored, superior beings and all?

On some levels, their motives are intentionally inscrutable. See also The Tree of Life or A Serious Man. Who are we to question God's motives? Just asking the question is an act of hubris and in this movie, hubris gets punished. That having been said, while the movie refuses to answer these unanswerable questions directly, there are hints that they are punishing us for the same hubris that Prometheus himself was punished for -- We have dared to take the power of the gods for ourselves. More on that in a second...

If, in fact, LV223 was in fact a weapons lab, it appears that things went very wrong there and wiped out all but the sentinel who managed to remain alive in stasis with intent to "deploy" regardless of what happened to the lab residents in those final hours. Also, it seemed clear that the lab's "security footage" of the final hours was intended as a training device for whomever might discover the installation. David executed that protocol with robotic precision, but who knew it simply meant that if Earthlings ever arrived, they would also be pressing their own erase button.

It may have been intended as a warning or it may have simply been surveillance video or it may have been some weird, bio-synthetic "memory."

"So, let's make these little animal things on this planet and turn them loose. If they ever figure out how to find us, we have a self-destruct built in. Sound good?" Kind of a sad, cruel creator, eh? Would such superior beings eventually become that way out of boredom?

Exactly the sort of question this movie is exploring and a question people have been asking about God for centuries. While the question does not have a definite answer (one reason I hope they don't do a sequel) it's notable that the Engineers themselves are guilty of hubris and they have also been punished for it when their bio-engineering ran a muck and wiped them all out.

The way the sentinel responds to being awakened and spoken to is really curious. I guess he did pretty good not to puke everywhere like most others do when pulled from hypersleep. But right away, he went into a mode of "my last orders were to deploy these canned-monsters to Earth if they wake me up." For superior beings, to not allow for any curiosity by the sentinel seems odd. I mean, I'd want to have a look at whoever decoded my sleep box. The sentinel was clearly a soldier and not a scientist.

True but, also, if they had decided to wipe us out because they found us morally repugnant, the scene he woke up to would have confirmed all of their conclusions. Here is a man who has created an abomination -- a life without a soul -- who is now further asking for immortality. Weyland rejects the order of things and seeks power that was previously the exclusive domain of the gods.

I like Shaw as the new Ripley. Young, hot, smart, motivated... What's not to love? I'm very much interested in her possible stories seeking The Makers. No need to have the "aliens" at this point any more. It would be about why Earth was given a shot, but only so far before having the plug pulled on the project. Maybe there was a conflict among "the makers" on the morality of sparking life then leaving plans in place for wiping it back out. Maybe humans were designed to simply be interstellar terra-formers for some other race. To me that concept as a sound business plan falls short because of how long it would take to be effective on a large enough scale. I guess if you're a few galaxies away and you arrange to have "foreign" galaxies terra-formed to be ready by the time your race needs those planets, it works out, but jeez. No easier way?

On some levels I hope they don't do a sequel because I don't need closure. These are questions that should not have answers.

[rightbug]

I went to see it because I thought it was an Alien prequel. I didn't expect something routine like "Hey, where did those monsters come from" but I did like the idea that the ship rising in the trailer was the same type that was found crashed at the beginning of Alien. They sold a ticket to me because of this. Otherwise I see it as another decent sci-fi movie that I can wait until DVD for.

If anything, I wish they had been less explicit about the connection. The dots were there for fans of the franchise to connect as they saw fit. The more you try to connect those dots, the more you open yourself up to either disappointing people's expectations or creating plot holes.

Oddly, the more I see it deconstructed (and deconstruct myself), it becomes both interesting and more frustrating.

For me the interest out weighs the frustration but I can see where others might not feel the same. That said...

For example, my interpretation of the first scenes is that the engineers created life on earth through their own sacrifice, somehow unraveling their own genetic material into primordial black ooze that triggered our own evolutionary process. But their destructive motives at the end? How do we know this to be true? It's only speculation that the ship was a bioweapon facility. The hostility of the one came only after the android spoke to him in a language no one else understood, so we only assume that David did a fair translation and didn't say something like "We've come to overtake you." And it's David still who tells everyone that they intend to return to Earth to destroy everything.

Yes!

These are all pretty interesting points, except without any answers, it's all merely exercise. And unfortunately there isn't a memorable movie/story around this to give it much more foundation.

I'm not particularly liking this new "Lost" method of storytelling, where the journey overtakes the destination.

As ridiculous as it is to compare a sci-fi horror movie with movies like The Tree of Life or A Serious Man, I do think they are exploring similar themes and one of the major points of all three movies in that the motives of our creator are not only inscrutable, they are meant to be inscrutable.

Shit, now I have gone down the rabbit hole of the book of Job. Why are the righteous punished? God sends the whirlwind to say, "You are not god, you cannot understand god and it is not your place to question god." God also makes it clear that he does not desire our sacrifices. (In this last regard, the Engineers are again guilty.)

[Nilan 666]

However it also fails spectacularly as a Christian allegory. It almost felt like something a stereotypical atheist would write to pander to a stereotypical christian. God created us in his own image, apparently not since God looks like fucking Kratos from God of War. Everytime a question comes up about faith she just says its what I choose to believe. I can choose to believe the sky is green if I want, it doesn't make me smart. Belief works in the absence of evidence but belief in the face of overwhelming evidence just makes you a tool. Inception wasn't as smart as it likes to think it is but at least the characters weren't all made of pure stupid.

[Tex]

oh yeah, the sentinel looks like The Kurgan, too.

[leedsy99]

As ridiculous as it is to compare a sci-fi horror movie with movies like The Tree of Life or A Serious Man, I do think they are exploring similar themes and one of the major points of all three movies in that the motives of our creator are not only inscrutable, they are meant to be inscrutable.

It's funny, because in reading your reactions to the movie versus mine, I instantly thought of our disagreement about A Serious Man. You found it profound and insightful for its philosophical urgency. I thought it was a boring two hours. And I hated Tree of Life for similar reasons. I even dislike the emo similar Donnie Darko. I guess, when considering my movies, I would rather have a tight drama with compelling characters and memorable dialogue (the essence of storytelling) versus any resonating thoughts.

[rightbug]

As ridiculous as it is to compare a sci-fi horror movie with movies like The Tree of Life or A Serious Man, I do think they are exploring similar themes and one of the major points of all three movies in that the motives of our creator are not only inscrutable, they are meant to be inscrutable.

It's funny, because in reading your reactions to the movie versus mine, I instantly thought of our disagreement about A Serious Man. You found it profound and insightful for its philosophical urgency. I thought it was a boring two hours. And I hated Tree of Life for similar reasons. I even dislike the emo similar Donnie Darko. I guess, when considering my movies, I would rather have a tight drama with compelling characters and memorable dialogue (the essence of storytelling) versus any resonating thoughts.

Yes, I fully accept that this is a quirk of my own personal taste. In my mind, movies like Prometheus and Inception are the best of both worlds -- On the surface you've got a big budget sci-fi action flick but you've also got something to take home and tease about in your mind for a week afterwards. Something that is enjoyable (debate-able, but enjoyable to me in both cases) on the surface but that also rewards further examination. I also realize that both Prometheus and Inception fall prey to over-ambition and are deeply flawed movies but, in a world full of shitty, lowest common denominator movies, I am very will to forgive flaws born of ambition, especially if the end result is interesting.

[rightbug]

I should add that while I admired Tree of Life, I didn't necessarily enjoy it all that much. At times it was an incredible bit of visual poetry but it was also a bit of a chore and, even for me, a bore.

[Tex]

I also realize that both Prometheus and Inception fall prey to over-ambition and are deeply flawed movies but, in a world full of shitty, lowest common denominator movies, I am very will to forgive flaws born of ambition, especially if the end result is interesting.

this.

[Paul Smachetti]

Saw it tonight w/wife and my daughter and her boyfriend. I have a few questions. At what point in time were the engineers going to return to earth and destroy mankind or is that not clear? Any theories as to why they would want to undo their work?
If I read earlier posts correctly this moon was not the setting for the original Alien movie ? Isn't the Alien bursting thru the chest of the engineer at the end of the film the first of the breed? If so how did they end up on the other planet for the original Alien? I was a little confused but I enjoyed the movie. I think.

[Tex]

Pablo, you had post 39. Go back to post 1 and pick up the trail. You'll see where we are when you get back here, to post 40.

[Paul Smachetti]

Pablo, you had post 39. Go back to post 1 and pick up the trail. You'll see where we are when you get back here, to post 40.

Too lazy. I'm a Cliff Notes kinda guy.


This post has been edited by Paul Smachetti: Jun 13 2012, 07:00 AM

[leedsy99]

If I read earlier posts correctly this moon was not the setting for the original Alien movie ? Isn't the Alien bursting thru the chest of the engineer at the end of the film the first of the breed? If so how did they end up on the other planet for the original Alien?

None of this stuff can be answered.

I have a theory about the last scene, however. I think the studio forced it on him. I think the executives watched his movie and said, "Wait, I thought this was an Alien prequel. So where is the alien?" Because for a movie that seems meticulous about so many things, usurping the gestational sequence for the alien -- which has always been a big part of the lore -- seemed glaring to the point of being obnoxious. Part of me kinda hopes that a lot of the inconsistencies in the movie are the product of tension between the creators and their financers. "Listen, Ridley, no one wants to see the expensive sci-fi movie that postulates our origins juxtaposed to our own development of artificial intelligence. Remember AI? The studio took a bath on it. So find a way to put some scary monsters in it too. Why not make it a prequel to Alien or something? The only thing movie-goers like more than sequels are prequels."

[Kusand]

It's funny, based on the thread happening on another message board I frequent, this definitely seems to be becoming a love it or hate it movie. Prometheus is the new Inception.

I decided to start reading spoilers because the reviews I'm seeing have been so extreme. Probably won't see this at this point, until it's on cable or something.

[teddyc]

Haven't seen the movie but maybe this is of interest?

http://blogs.suntimes.com/foreignc/2012/06...an-reality.html

[the old mole]

Haven't seen the movie but maybe this is of interest?

http://blogs.suntimes.com/foreignc/2012/06...an-reality.html

I liked that reviewer's insight about dreams. I saw this movie last week and really didn't have anything to say about it other than "I liked it," and that paragraph got me thinking.

David's spying on dreams resonates with his watching movies, with the holographic messages that get layered right over reality, with Charlize's illusory wall, and with two civilizations' dream of creating something like them: the big white aliens made humanity, and humanity made "robots" (nerdalert: they're not robots; they're androids!). Over this dream of creation is layered the myth of Prometheus. Of course, the Engineers weren't working from the basis of Greek mythology, and the gap between human and alien are larger than the gulf of language (interesting that David is the only one who can speak their language: the creation of humanity bridges the gap between human and alien.

As in a dream, everything in this film hangs on the barest pretenses of plot and characterization; those little scenes of interaction between characters, where we get to see a little of who they are, what they care about, and what motivates them have to do so much work, and are subsumed by the cosmic spectacle unfolding around them. In some ways, it's the same pomo-Gnosticism we've been getting from "smart" Hollywood movies for the past decade, but in Prometheus we have an interesting meeting of Tarkovsky's Solaris (look what happens when we divorce scientistic progressivism from morality!) and a Lovecraftian cynicism (humans are tiny, weak, and dumb, and when you explore those things in the world much bigger that you, you lose something--if not all--of your precious humanity).

This film also has the same purity/homogeneity vs. contagion/contamination/heterogeneity that the original film explores, and it think it explores them in a way that doesn't just rehash what we already saw in Alien. Not only is the iconic alien a vagina dentata with a penis coming out of it (and that penis has another vagina on the end of it), but it was created when a giant tentacled anus impregnated a male humanoid. But there's more going on than just purity=human=good and impurity=alien=bad; Ripley basically becomes a cyborg at the end of Aliens, and David (who is "purely" artificial) has the ability to speak the language of both the humans and the Engineers, in effect becoming something more than either.

So after all that you might be saying, "yes, it had all that stuff in it, but the material wasn't executed in a compelling way." I guess I don't need a good movie, I just need "shit I think is cool."

One more thing, and then I'll shut up: Alien was the first scary movie I ever saw. I must have been five or six. I still remember watching it for the first time and how scared I was. The thing that scared me most wasn't the alien or the facehugger, but when Ash gets torn apart and there's all that white liquid and wires everywhere. I don't know why I found that so much more horrifying than anything else in the movie.

[Tex]

nerdalert: they're not robots; they're androids!

though, they may prefer the term "artificial person" themselves...

[Sed]

Mole, I commend you - I feel like I don't have much more to say that you didn't just cover, right down to Ash.

[rightbug]

Agreed -- Good post.

[Tex]

I really feel like subjects like this one would make for some awesome round-table talk at a poolside lounge or bar.

edited to add: round-table with Rangerlanders, that is...

This post has been edited by Tex: Jun 15 2012, 01:12 PM

[Nilan 666]

I'd need a drink if it means I have to watch this again.