Rangerland Forum Information

[jkman61494]

This won't make the waves over there in New York and New Jersey but....

Last year, Pennsylvania (like almost every other battleground state) had new right wing state legislatures and governors pass Voter ID Laws. Despite the fact Pennsylvania has had 0 documented acts of voter fraud in the past 13 years, the government spent $11 million to curb "fraud."

A common talking point is this was done to stop Democratic leaning groups such as minorities, students and the poor from voting. Some have said this is a valid argument. Others have said it is rediculous.

Well, Pennsylvania house leader Mike Turzai has put that debate to rest in my eyes. At an event on Saturday, he spoke of Republican accomplishments here and let it slip that the Voter ID Law will help Romney win Pennsylvania.



Here is Colbert's take.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-r...oter-id-remarks

[Eric]

Rediculous.

[Hockey101]

We get student IDs. We get license IDs. We have car registration with our IDs. We have a shitload of IDs in this country, but having one to vote is a bad thing. I really don't see the big deal about this. Just because there is no voter fraud doesn't mean that there should be nothing to prevent it.

You know what then? I don't think we need a vehicle registration then.

[Greatone]

I don't think its a big deal. It's just the way its being presented by the Republicans that make it look bad.

[Hockey101]

I don't think its a big deal. It's just the way its being presented by the Republicans that make it look bad.

That may be. But who cares anyway?

[jkman61494]

We get student IDs. We get license IDs. We have car registration with our IDs. We have a shitload of IDs in this country, but having one to vote is a bad thing. I really don't see the big deal about this. Just because there is no voter fraud doesn't mean that there should be nothing to prevent it.

You know what then? I don't think we need a vehicle registration then.

1) A student who lives in Erie, Pa but goes to Temple in Philly. Doesn't have a car because he's in the city. His student ID would not count as a voter ID because it doesn't include his permanent address. Therefore in order to vote that student will have to make his permanent address where he goes to school. Sounds small but considering you often change your address every year in college it is pretty ridiculous.

Do you know how hard it is to get the 18-25 demographic to vote is? This law is going to lead to BIG problems when students who don't even know about this law walk up to the polls and find out they're not allowed to vote.

2) An elderly person who lives in assisted living who does not drive anymore. If they are 83 and on an oxygen machine, they now need to find a way to get transportation to a driver license center of they cannot vote.

3) Poor people in cities (often minorities) who don't drive, who may not even have ANY form of ID now cannot vote. Additionally you have to PAY to get a Voter ID card, in essence, to be a legal voter now in our state, you have to pay in order to do it. Ain't that nice?

One of our founding principles is the right to vote. Now PA is making you pay for that right to prevent a fraud that does not exist. And now you find out from the State Senate leader it's all being done to win an election.

You cannot in anyway defense this 101. It's voter suppression.

This post has been edited by jkman61494: Jun 28 2012, 06:36 PM

[jkman61494]

I don't think its a big deal. It's just the way its being presented by the Republicans that make it look bad.

That may be. But who cares anyway?

The 90,000 or so people in Pennsylvania who right now have lost their right to vote care.

[TeamStewie]

It sounds like they are being as lenient as possible. How hard is it to do any of these things?

http://www.votespa.com/portal/server.pt/co..._id_law/1115447

New Voter ID Law
Photo ID required for November 2012 Election

ALL voters will be required to show a photo ID before voting at a polling place

All photo IDs must contain an expiration date that is current, unless noted otherwise. Acceptable IDs include:

Photo IDs issued by the U.S. Federal Government or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania:
Pennsylvania driver’s license or non-driver’s license photo ID (IDs are valid for voting purposes 12 months past expiration date)
Valid U.S. passport
U.S. military ID - active duty and retired military (a military or veteran’s ID must designate an expiration date or designate that the expiration date is indefinite). Military dependents’ ID must contain an expiration date
Employee photo ID issued by Federal, PA, County or Municipal government
Photo ID cards from an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning
Photo ID cards issued by a Pennsylvania care facility, including long-term care facilities, assisted living residences or personal care homes
If you do not have one of these IDs and require one for voting purposes, you may be entitled to get one FREE OF CHARGE at a PennDOT Driver License Center. To find the Driver License Center nearest you, and learn what identification and residency documentation you will need to get a photo ID visit PennDOT's Voter ID website or call the Department of State's Voter ID Hotline at 1-877-VotesPA (1-877-868-3772).

NO ONE legally entitled to vote will be denied the right to do so. If you do not have a photo ID or are indigent and unable to obtain one without payment of a fee, you may cast a provisional ballot, and will have six days to provide your photo ID and/or an affirmation to your county elections office to have your ballot count. If you have a religious objection to being photographed you can still vote by presenting a valid without-photo driver’s license or a valid without-photo ID card issued by PennDOT.

If you plan on voting by Absentee Ballot on the November 6, 2012 General Election, you will need to provide proof of identification. Be sure to see what identification is required by the Voter ID Law.

[rightbug]

It sounds like they are being as lenient as possible. How hard is it to do any of these things?

If you are old it can be hard. Older voters tend to vote Democrat.

Many poor people are not terribly high functioning so for them this might be a little hard. They also probably don't feel like paying whatever fees are required to get one of these IDs. Poor people tend to vote Democrat.

If you are a minority, you might be distrustful of shit like this. Minorities tend to vote Democrat.

In the end, it's not really about how hard it is though. It's a way of disenfranchising people who tend to vote Democrat and it's paid for by tax payers. There is no need for this law. It is entirely unnecessary and there has never been a single case of documented voter fraud in the state but they are spending $11 million of tax payer money simply to put hurdles in the path of the elderly, the poor and minorities. That's wrong. It's also un-American.

[Ebase]

I don't think its a big deal. It's just the way its being presented by the Republicans that make it look bad.

Well to be fair the voter suppression (so called) law states are interesting. Florida, Ohio, PA, Michigan, Wisconsin, & Virginia. See something in common with those states? They are all in play for 2012. So, you have tons of Republican hack attorneys working with the legislatures to get laws passed that have the potential to keep the Democrats home. Likewise, you have Democrat organizations (albeit more or less outside of the party groups like the ACLU) trying to create drama where their isn't any or battling off the attempts by the GOP to suppress.

In this regard the election is already on.

The attempts by the GOP and their governor right now in Florida are nothing short of egregious, blatant, and shameful.

Everyone is looking for an edge.

EDIT: …and let us not forget 2000. An election when the wrong guy might have been elected because of Florida.

In the end, it's not really about how hard it is though. It's a way of disenfranchising people who tend to vote Democrat and it's paid for by tax payers. There is no need for this law. It is entirely unnecessary and there has never been a single case of documented voter fraud in the state but they are spending $11 million of tax payer money simply to put hurdles in the path of the elderly, the poor and minorities. That's wrong. It's also un-American.

It always makes me laugh at the fear of voter fraud from illegals.

Why? Because the first place someone who is illegal goes is the voters booth? Clearly...

This post has been edited by Ebase: Jun 28 2012, 07:14 PM

[TeamStewie]

NH just passed a law too. How do people function without some sort of ID? Almost everything requires it these days.

[jkman61494]

You people forget that the vast majority of people just don't pay attention to the news. There will be people that go to vote and be told they can't. Provisional my rear end. People don't like taking the time to vote period. So now they'll be told to go to a Driver center to get one on top of it?

Even "if" it was easy. The fact you have one of the top Republicans in this state saying flat out that this strategy is to win an election is shameful.

[the old mole]

Is there a problem with voter fraud right now? Are massive waves of fraudulent ballots corrupting the democratic process?

No?

OK. Moving on then.

[jkman61494]

Is there a problem with voter fraud right now? Are massive waves of fraudulent ballots corrupting the democratic process?

No?

OK. Moving on then.

Well it'd be great to move on but these states have already passed laws that will suppress votes. I happen to think it won't work in PA as Republicans have to make up 11 points.

But how about North Carolina where Obama won by 6,000 vote? Virginia that was I think 2 points. Florida which is always up in the air etc etc.

The fact is there are no problems with fraud. 0 cases in PA since 1999.

[Eric]

My understanding is that people need to just show a valid driver's license or non drivers ID. Or a passport. Or a Student ID. If you are a resident of Pennsylvania aren't you required to have an ID? Don't old people have IDs too? Aren't you required by law to have a valid ID on you? Doesn't every accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning give their students an ID? I certainly got one at Drexel. I think it's silly to force people to now bring IDs to vote but is it really that big of a deal? Do that many people not carry their ID with them when they leave the house?

Besides, they send enough junk through the mail around election time. They can't send something out that says "Don't forget to bring your ID!"?

This post has been edited by Eric: Jun 29 2012, 12:23 AM

[jkman61494]

Eric it may not be a big issue but again to have a leading politician say they're doing a voter id law for election reasons is pretty awful.

Also with this new law say you lived in Bedford, Pa but went to school in Drexel. Before your ID would have worked, but with the new law it wouldn't because it doesn't have your "permanent" address.

So now you have to make your Drexel dorm room your personal address and get new ID's. So if you were to then say move to an off campus apartment, you'd need another new ID in two years for the midterm elections.

If you then graduate and move to an apartment in Philly? Another new ID needed.

It's just a pretty big inconvenience.

Additionally, there is a decent possibility poor people or old people would have none of these ID's.

[Eric]

How many old people have moved so recently that the address on their ID is outdated? And do so many old people really not have IDs?

This post has been edited by Eric: Jun 29 2012, 01:35 AM

[Kusand]

It sounds like they are being as lenient as possible. How hard is it to do any of these things?

Consider being a minimum-wage citizen with no license working one or two jobs to make ends meet. Every one of these options requires non-trivial effort or is simply unobtainable.


Pennsylvania driver’s license or non-driver’s license photo ID - spend a day at the DMV and lose multiple hours if not a whole day of wages.
Valid U.S. passport - Over $100 in fees
U.S. military ID - Not military? Good luck.
Employee photo ID issued by Federal, PA, County or Municipal government - Not a gov't employee? Good luck.
Photo ID cards from an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning - Just enroll in college! Easy!
Photo ID cards issued by a Pennsylvania care facility, including long-term care facilities, assisted living residences or personal care homes - Almost completely unlikely to be applicable
If you do not have one of these IDs and require one for voting purposes, you may be entitled to get one FREE OF CHARGE at a PennDOT Driver License Center. To find the Driver License Center nearest you, and learn what identification and residency documentation you will need to get a photo ID visit PennDOT's Voter ID website or call the Department of State's Voter ID Hotline at 1-877-VotesPA (1-877-868-3772). - Again, just take a day off work, figure out where you put all those documents they want, and then swear an oath that you're really a citizen, you promise


We're trading the voting capabilities of people who may not be able to go get a photo ID for possible voter fraud. At best, it's a wash - you've reduced a few fraudulent votes (and it's not like fakes are hard to acquire for those who are trying) in exchange for denying the vote to the poor, elderly, and others who simply didn't have the capability to get to the DMV.

[jkman61494]

What is even more maddening is the fact Pennsylvania now stands to lay off over 20,000 teachers in the past two years, almost directly due to state budget cuts. Meanwhile they have $11 million to spend on this bill.

Maybe $11 million doesn't mean that much but it really is the principle of that matter.

Tom Corbett and his far right here have cut so much from education that most cities not named Pittsburgh or Philadelphia are having to do such measures like cutting Kindergarten, thus forcing parents to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on daycare.

But really. They totally care about the citizens of Pennsylvania, I swear.

[Nilan 666]

The GOP can always be depended on to solve problems that don't exist like voter fraud and creeping Shariah. Problems that actually exist, not so much.

[Hockey101]

We get student IDs. We get license IDs. We have car registration with our IDs. We have a shitload of IDs in this country, but having one to vote is a bad thing. I really don't see the big deal about this. Just because there is no voter fraud doesn't mean that there should be nothing to prevent it.

You know what then? I don't think we need a vehicle registration then.

1) A student who lives in Erie, Pa but goes to Temple in Philly. Doesn't have a car because he's in the city. His student ID would not count as a voter ID because it doesn't include his permanent address. Therefore in order to vote that student will have to make his permanent address where he goes to school. Sounds small but considering you often change your address every year in college it is pretty ridiculous.

Do you know how hard it is to get the 18-25 demographic to vote is? This law is going to lead to BIG problems when students who don't even know about this law walk up to the polls and find out they're not allowed to vote.

2) An elderly person who lives in assisted living who does not drive anymore. If they are 83 and on an oxygen machine, they now need to find a way to get transportation to a driver license center of they cannot vote.

3) Poor people in cities (often minorities) who don't drive, who may not even have ANY form of ID now cannot vote. Additionally you have to PAY to get a Voter ID card, in essence, to be a legal voter now in our state, you have to pay in order to do it. Ain't that nice?

One of our founding principles is the right to vote. Now PA is making you pay for that right to prevent a fraud that does not exist. And now you find out from the State Senate leader it's all being done to win an election.

You cannot in anyway defense this 101. It's voter suppression.

A student attending college from his out of state residence cannot vote in that state where he/she is attending college because he is not resident of that state. If that student becomes resident of that state, then sure. Otherwise, no.

Poor people can still get an ID card. It costs between $20 to $25. I think the state should provide people making less than $15k a year with an ID card.

There is also absentee ballot, which i think is also internet based now in some states as well.

It's not voter suppression to prove that you are a legal US citizen exercising your right to vote legally in this country. We may as well say that a driver's license suppresses me to drive a car then.

[Hockey101]

The GOP can always be depended on to solve problems that don't exist like voter fraud and creeping Shariah. Problems that actually exist, not so much.

Right, because the Democratic party always ends up fixing problems that exist!

[Ebase]

The GOP can always be depended on to solve problems that don't exist like voter fraud and creeping Shariah. Problems that actually exist, not so much.

Right, because the Democratic party always ends up fixing problems that exist!

101, do you believe that voter suppression is real, and if so is the GOP involved in it?

[Hockey101]

The GOP can always be depended on to solve problems that don't exist like voter fraud and creeping Shariah. Problems that actually exist, not so much.

Right, because the Democratic party always ends up fixing problems that exist!

101, do you believe that voter suppression is real, and if so is the GOP involved in it?

Yes, even that Bush caused 9/11 to then pass laws to further suppress voters.

[Ebase]

Yes, even that Bush caused 9/11 to then pass laws to further suppress voters.

And there in lies your problem. Your being a partisan hack.

Both political parties have been attempting to rig elections in their favor since Washington.

[jkman61494]

So it's just a huge coincidence that in almost every battle ground state in this 2012 election, state legislatures have passed bills that are going to make it more difficult for almost every strong Democratic voting block to cast a vote right? Yet by some miracle, the biggest Republican voting blocks don't have any problems.

Again, the students are the best example in PA. They came out in droves. I personally saw some voting in a podunk town until 10 PM to carry a town blue for the first time since Civl War reconstruction. Now, unless every student in that town makes their official address the dorm room or apartment they live in, they can't vote.

Additionally, every student will then need to go to the DMV and get a new photo ID every year they move into a new place around school.

Students tend to vote 70/30 in favor of a Democratic politician. But, just a coincidence right?

What is going on in Pennsylvania, while awful, is trivial compared to the stuff going on in Florida.

And I will gladly be objective here. I am sure there have been times Democrats suppress the vote too especially in city political races.

But it's incredibly foolish to believe it doesn't happen at all.

This post has been edited by jkman61494: Jun 29 2012, 12:02 PM

[Greatone]

Yes, even that Bush caused 9/11 to then pass laws to further suppress voters.

And there in lies your problem. Your being a partisan hack.

Both political parties have been attempting to rig elections in their favor since Washington.

But EBase no one ever tries to talk nicely with him about politics!

[the old mole]

The argument here shouldn't be that it's hard for some people to get an ID card. It should be that the problem these voter ID laws ostensibly attempt to address is not actually a problem.

[jkman61494]

The argument here shouldn't be that it's hard for some people to get an ID card. It should be that the problem these voter ID laws ostensibly attempt to address is not actually a problem.

If anyone ever wants to know what the legislative agenda is for the Republican party, one need only listen to this clip.

[Ebase]

I think you have somewhat of a perfect storm brewing.

1. The right has a huge anti immigrant stance. There is a fantasy that the country is being taken over by Hugo Chavez.

2. The right has very little minority vote. Make it hard for them to vote. Big support from the minions.

It's good politics, it's bad for the republic

[rightbug]

Strong as they may be today, the Republican party is going to start to wither in the coming decade just due to sheer demographics.

[jkman61494]

I always find it enjoyable to talk to an anti immigrant person when they go off on how they're taking all their jobs...

I ask, what jobs are they taking exactly? They usually can't answer.. Then I simply ask.

Would you like to chop up dead cattle in a processing plant? Pick apples in a field in 104 degree weather? Shovel up horse manure at a stable? Trimming shrubs?

Is it generalizing a bit? Maybe. But these are typically the jobs an illegal immigrant will take. Hard manual labor that pays minimum wage, or sometimes even worse. With the society we have now, I would love to see how many Americans, even those unemployed, would line up to go work in a slaughter house for $7.25 p/h

Sorry I know this is about ID's but I couldn't resist.

[Kusand]

Poor people can still get an ID card. It costs between $20 to $25. I think the state should provide people making less than $15k a year with an ID card.

Since you seem to acknowledge the poor (can't/shouldn't need to) afford to spend $25 to have the right to vote, how do you reconcile this view with the fact that getting an ID is a process that currently requires people to show up during business hours, when they're typically working to earn money?

There is also absentee ballot, which i think is also internet based now in some states as well.

Can't vote absentee if you're don't have ID in PA according to this law, so it's not like that fixes anything.

[Ebase]

Strong as they may be today, the Republican party is going to start to wither in the coming decade just due to sheer demographics.

I am not sure I think that will happen. Right now? For the next 10-years? Probably. They are doing their best to alienate them as much as is humanely possible.

Down the road there will inevitably be a more diverse GOP. But it's policies will not be so WASPie centric. And if they don't? They are going to become a marginal party. And that isn't good for anyone.

[TeamStewie]

Poor people can still get an ID card. It costs between $20 to $25. I think the state should provide people making less than $15k a year with an ID card.

Since you seem to acknowledge the poor (can't/shouldn't need to) afford to spend $25 to have the right to vote, how do you reconcile this view with the fact that getting an ID is a process that currently requires people to show up during business hours, when they're typically working to earn money?

There is also absentee ballot, which i think is also internet based now in some states as well.

Can't vote absentee if you're don't have ID in PA according to this law, so it's not like that fixes anything.

Seems most of the centers are open on Saturdays. Still not quite sure why it's so hard considering I managed to do it when I was young and poor and working all the time.

https://www.dot33.state.pa.us/locator/AmsSe...120629193247435

This post has been edited by TeamStewie: Jun 29 2012, 06:35 PM

[the old mole]

The argument here shouldn't be that it's hard for some people to get an ID card. It should be that the problem these voter ID laws ostensibly attempt to address is not actually a problem.

If anyone ever wants to know what the legislative agenda is for the Republican party, one need only listen to this clip.

I don't doubt that these laws are intended to disenfranchise voters (that's why I said they "ostensibly" address voter fraud); I just don't think you're going to convince people that these laws are a bad idea based on the fact that some people don't have ID. Too bad its not Democrats advocating for voter ID; then you'd get conservatives vilifying these laws as the overreaching hand of big government crushing our freedoms.

[rightbug]

I was young and poor and working all the time.

That's fine but your not the sort of person they are trying to disenfranchise. 'Works out nicely for them that way.

[TeamStewie]

I was young and poor and working all the time.

That's fine but your not the sort of person they are trying to disenfranchise. 'Works out nicely for them that way.

Regardless, if I could somehow manage to get my ass to the DMV on one of my few days off in the middle of the week there's no good reason someone else can't as well. And how do you know WHAT sort of person I am anyhow? Stereotyping is an awful thing

This post has been edited by TeamStewie: Jun 29 2012, 08:12 PM

[Kusand]

Regardless, if I could somehow manage to get my ass to the DMV on one of my few days off in the middle of the week there's no good reason someone else can't as well.

The point regardless is that you shouldn't NEED to do that. It's still a hurdle for people, and it's solving a problem that didn't really need fixing.

[Hockey101]

Yes, even that Bush caused 9/11 to then pass laws to further suppress voters.

And there in lies your problem. Your being a partisan hack.

Both political parties have been attempting to rig elections in their favor since Washington.

It was an idiotic question and i gave you a deserving idiotic answer. Of course both parties try to cheat. I don't give a rat's ass who is proposing voter ID laws. I think they make sense.

[Hockey101]

So it's just a huge coincidence that in almost every battle ground state in this 2012 election, state legislatures have passed bills that are going to make it more difficult for almost every strong Democratic voting block to cast a vote right? Yet by some miracle, the biggest Republican voting blocks don't have any problems.

Again, the students are the best example in PA. They came out in droves. I personally saw some voting in a podunk town until 10 PM to carry a town blue for the first time since Civl War reconstruction. Now, unless every student in that town makes their official address the dorm room or apartment they live in, they can't vote.

Additionally, every student will then need to go to the DMV and get a new photo ID every year they move into a new place around school.

Students tend to vote 70/30 in favor of a Democratic politician. But, just a coincidence right?

What is going on in Pennsylvania, while awful, is trivial compared to the stuff going on in Florida.

And I will gladly be objective here. I am sure there have been times Democrats suppress the vote too especially in city political races.

But it's incredibly foolish to believe it doesn't happen at all.

An individual has to vote in his/her district. I can't vote in Boynton Beach. I have to vote in District 16 (i think) in Delray Beach. So...if i am a Florida resident, and i attend a college in Georgia, i cannot vote in Georgia. If i go to a college in Tampa Bay, i cannot vote in Tampa Bay (although maybe for federal elections yes, but not state and local elections).

You know what happens that obviously goes unnoticed? States do not use the Social Security Death Index so if i am using the SS of a dead person, i can vote and no one will know about it. Students can do absentee ballots easily, and they should anyway so they don't take time off from studying. If you want to vote, and you know it's going to be a problem, you can do it via absentee ballot. You can also vote early. I did early voting in 2010. Long line, as i was surprised, but i did it.

There are ways to make voting simpler and people can easily take advantage of those ways.

No excuses.

[Hockey101]

I think you have somewhat of a perfect storm brewing.

1. The right has a huge anti immigrant stance. There is a fantasy that the country is being taken over by Hugo Chavez.

2. The right has very little minority vote. Make it hard for them to vote. Big support from the minions.

It's good politics, it's bad for the republic

1. The right is actually HUGE in anti ILLEGAL immigration. The taken over by Chavez thing i don't get...

2. The left has a huge minority vote because of government paid offerings, giving free healthcare and free education to illegals so they vote for the left.

It's good politics, it's bad for the republic.

[Hockey101]

Poor people can still get an ID card. It costs between $20 to $25. I think the state should provide people making less than $15k a year with an ID card.

Since you seem to acknowledge the poor (can't/shouldn't need to) afford to spend $25 to have the right to vote, how do you reconcile this view with the fact that getting an ID is a process that currently requires people to show up during business hours, when they're typically working to earn money?

There is also absentee ballot, which i think is also internet based now in some states as well.

Can't vote absentee if you're don't have ID in PA according to this law, so it's not like that fixes anything.

Hence why i said that people making under $15k a year should get it through local government assistance. What kind of ID is acceptable by PA law standards on an absentee ballot? Do they ask for SS#? Driver's license number? Doesn't seem like a problem if it would be done that way. I am sure the Voter ID law is flawed, complex, and could be made a lot simpler. But, i am absolutely in favor of it.

[Hockey101]

Strong as they may be today, the Republican party is going to start to wither in the coming decade just due to sheer demographics.

I am not sure I think that will happen. Right now? For the next 10-years? Probably. They are doing their best to alienate them as much as is humanely possible.

Down the road there will inevitably be a more diverse GOP. But it's policies will not be so WASPie centric. And if they don't? They are going to become a marginal party. And that isn't good for anyone.

I think minorities will mostly go where a state is more liberal in terms of social programs, like the great state of Bankruptlifornia. If the GOP finds a solution to win the hispanics through social issues and connect better with them through other policies then i don't think it will be a problem.

[Hockey101]

I was young and poor and working all the time.

That's fine but your not the sort of person they are trying to disenfranchise. 'Works out nicely for them that way.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[Hockey101]

Regardless, if I could somehow manage to get my ass to the DMV on one of my few days off in the middle of the week there's no good reason someone else can't as well.

The point regardless is that you shouldn't NEED to do that. It's still a hurdle for people, and it's solving a problem that didn't really need fixing.

So, this problem would not fix people using SS #s of dead people and voting "legally"?

[Eric]

Actually 101 I had numerous opportunities to register to vote while I was at Drexel in order to vote in the Philly elections. Back then I wouldn't have had to register for a Pennsylvania ID in order to vote in their elections.

[Hockey101]

Actually 101 I had numerous opportunities to register to vote while I was at Drexel in order to vote in the Philly elections. Back then I wouldn't have had to register for a Pennsylvania ID in order to vote in their elections.

PA has a different system than FL, i guess. Hell, i think Anne Coulter got in trouble for voting in the wrong district down here.

[Greatone]

Regardless, if I could somehow manage to get my ass to the DMV on one of my few days off in the middle of the week there's no good reason someone else can't as well.

The point regardless is that you shouldn't NEED to do that. It's still a hurdle for people, and it's solving a problem that didn't really need fixing.

So, this problem would not fix people using SS #s of dead people and voting "legally"?

This isn't even an issue in PA. Why are you making up fake problems with the voting process to support the law?

[Charlie]

I think you have somewhat of a perfect storm brewing.

1. The right has a huge anti immigrant stance. There is a fantasy that the country is being taken over by Hugo Chavez.

2. The right has very little minority vote. Make it hard for them to vote. Big support from the minions.

It's good politics, it's bad for the republic

1. The right is actually HUGE in anti ILLEGAL immigration. The taken over by Chavez thing i don't get...

2. The left has a huge minority vote because of government paid offerings, giving free healthcare and free education to illegals so they vote for the left.

It's good politics, it's bad for the republic.

If by free healthcare you mean they can't be turned away at emergency rooms, then I guess you are right. How terrible that democrats don't want people dying in the streets because an emergency room turned them away. Or maybe you were talking about Medicaid given to children. Almost all of these children were born in the United States. So, even though their parents are illegal immigrants, they are legal citizens. How dare Democrats want to give healthcare to children who have done nothing wrong.

However, very little cash assistance is going to illegal immigrants. According to CIS, less than 1 percent of illegal-immigrant-headed households included anyone receiving direct government cash assistance, such as Temporary Aid for Needy Families (TANF), Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or state-run cash aid. This is not surprising: Illegal immigrants are generally barred from receiving such payments.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...legals-are-pic/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/st...ll-food-stamps/

Pretty good summary of how almost all benefits received by illegal immigrants goes to children, most of whom were born in the United States. It is illegal to give state benefits to undocumented workers. The vast, vast majority of all assistance given to families that contain illegal immigrants are given to children who are here legally.

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. Democrats don't want to give basic healthcare and education to children, many of whom were born in the United States. We want to give away gobs of cash to illegal immigrants to win their votes!

If you don't think children who were either born in the U.S. to illegal parents or were brought to the U.S. illegally when they were too young to know what was happening don't deserve healthcare or education I don't even want to talk to you. That is an utterly indefensible position.

This post has been edited by Charlie: Jun 30 2012, 09:21 AM