Not sure if this has ever been discussed before, but every year around this time I get rather annoyed with my company.

The company is owned & run by a Jewish family. Most of the higher ups are in the family, observe all holidays, etc. And every year around this time a mass memo goes out to everyone here telling us the following:


Just a reminder that during the Passover Holiday beginning on April 6th thru Saturday April 14th all bread products must be removed from the office (including your desks) Thursday April 5th before the end of the work day and should not be brought into the office again until Monday April 16th.

Examples as follows: (pizza, rice, bread, noodles, cakes, crackers, muffins etc.)
Please note that the cleaning service will be instructed to empty and clean both refrigerators on Thursday April 5th at the end of the day.

Thank you for for cooperation.


Is this legal to do if most of your employees are not of Jewish faith? I respect their religion and I'm not slandering it. I just don't really agree with it.

This reminds me of another debate we had where the employer was of one faith and imposed its will upon employees who weren't necessarily of the same faith. Now which thread was that. Hmm...

If it's been discussed previously here, I really don't remember and couldn't find it......

I don't think there are any legal concerns with this one. They aren't really imposing their religion on you, they are ensuring they are able to properly practice theirs. The proper way to do this would be to have separate refrigerators and microwaves, which I know many people do.

If I run a business and decided arbitrarily that no bread products would be allowed in the office during the month of July, no one can tell me I can't make that an enforcable rule.

Now, I'm going to jump through some pretty big hoops here, but I would assume the company has some kind of a legal team on retainer, and I would also assume that you had some kind of employee manual or signed off on some kind of policy or agreement when you were hired. I'm willing to bet this is covered in there.

Private companies can mostly do what they want, as long as they don't making hiring or promotion/firing decisions based on prohibited reasons (e.g., race), and you're not being harassed in the workplace. You see this a lot in small law firms too - where you may have to go along with the particular beliefs of management.

There are no separate refrigerators here except for the one that the owner of our company has - which is only for Kosher foods. The rest of the employees use the fridges in both kitchens.

There's no employee manual, we've never signed off on anything and I've been here for three and a half years. It's just a memo we get every year around this time.

It's just frustrating to those of us that aren't of the same faith. I understand why they're asking this of us and I respect it each year, I tend to think it's unfair since I now have to spend extra money on food for breakfast and lunch that abide by their guidelines.

He's talking about the birth control debate.

Phew, okay good. I always search before posting a new topic because I don't want to duplicate a thing.

I thought they just couldn't eat that stuff not that they couldn't even breath the same air it's in. Rather stupid but then again most religions are in some way.

Yeah, they probably can do it, but it's really inconsiderate of them at the very least. Definitely wouldn't sit well with me.

You mean like how my cafeteria hasn't had meat on Fridays for the past month or so?

My understanding is that Passover indeed requires you to clean your space of all breads, not just to avoid eating it. You can be in the same room assuming it's not yours, but if you can control it, you're supposed to dispose of it.

Yes, this is the case.

They cant eat it and they cant have ownership of it (or, it would seem, have it on property they own).

Yay! I retained something!

When I lived in NY, I worked for an Israeli company that had a lot of strictly-observing jewish employees (not the Israelis, who were totally laissez-faire about religion, but the American Jews) and there wasn't even a hint of this. They were 'only your husband can see your real hair' thing strict, not even use an elevator after sundown on Friday strict, but nothing like your employer. Sounds like they have a willpower problem and just impose this rule to make it easier on themselves.

This is equally inconsiderate, and is demonstrates why religion just needs to be kept out of secular public affairs (government, schools, work) in the first place.

Agreed!

As made apparent to many here, I am a Jew by culture, and still consider it cultural despite the religion.

I have always believed that religions and attitudes about it are a little inverted in this country. When they put a nativity in front of a municipal building I have no issue with it. I don't want religion "taught" in public school but respecting someone's faith is no problem. I think it's good in the spirit of respect and understanding that everyone be given an understanding of their beliefs. It isn't indoctrination to me to have my child understand that Muslims follow a book called the Koran believe in a prophet and where in the world that region is practiced. I want them to know their history. I even want my children to be a basic understanding of what is offensive to Muslims. I think this is a good thing. I think Mormonism is fucking nuts but I would want the same thing to occur.

If I ate pork and worked for an Islamic company and that was something that is serious odds with their faith, I simply wouldn't eat pork in their building. I look at it as courtesy. If my company asked me to observe their "needs" for lent? I would do that as well. I see it as a sign of respect for them. It doesn't become a problem for me unless they are looking for conversion by using means whether socially or using leverage. Conversion attempts I think are wrong. I do however despite thinking that they are all wrong think that they have the right to practice their faith as long as they are not trying to convert me.

I will wish people a Happy Easter, Christmas, Passover, and anything else if it has meaning to them and be respectful of their needs.

I think when people respect other people's faiths in such minor ways, it brings everyone closer to each other.


It isn't just about who signs my paycheck to me it's about tolerance. If they asked for me not to have bread during their Pesach holiday, i would wish them a Happy Passover and like i do with other holidays wish them a happy one. I just respect people that way. if I wanted bread, I would go out to eat this week.

I'm catholic, but I don't think something like "pizza friday" would offend me if I was at a school cafeteria.

It seems like the intertwining of personal and private rights, and first amendment type stuff is off the charts here. It's tough. I was arguing on the pro-birth control side on the other thread. I could see where they were coming from, but it bothered me on some level as invasive.

That said, where is the line drawn keeping religion out of secular affairs? Should they not be allowed to control their workspace in a way that they feel comfortable with, be it kicking out bread or not having meat in the cafeteria? Can they not close for a holiday because that inconveniences employees who need the pay? It seems way too tricky to just say "leave your religion at home" on this sort of stuff. I tend to feel like they should be able to control what's going on inside their offices/space, and that it's when they start regulating what goes on outside the office/space that's too much for me.

Sure, but in my cafeteria the soup station has no meat, the hot station has no meat, the pizza station has no meat and the sautee station has no meat.

In my cafeteria, the soup station has Lorna Doones, the hot station has Lorna Doones, the pizza station has Lorna Doones, and the sautee station has Lorna Doones.

I find nothing wrong with that.

It's annoying and total BS if most of the employees are not Jewish, but it is a private company and they have a right to put forth this policy.

I would go out to eat, but that's roughly 10 dollars a day I'll be spending on breakfast and lunch for the duration of their Passover observance. That's 10 dollars a day that I simply don't have.

I don't mind going grocery shopping to get things that I can eat here during Passover - but not everyone in this company can afford an extra trip to the grocery. I'm lucky if I can at this point, but if that's what I need to do so I can eat...so be it. It's just going to be an extra 30 bucks that I have to budget somehow.

Just a reminder that Thursday is National Fun at Work Day. Please be respectful of Mike and avoid drinking Peppermint Tea in the office. Also, the cleaning staff will be rifling through your drawers Thursday night. Thank you.

Is bread really such an integral part of your diet that you couldn't just bring rice-bowls, pasta, or salad to work?

Do you eat meat every day though anyway? I love meat and don't eat meat everyday. Maybe it's because at my school growing up, and it wasn't a catholic school it was a public school EVERY Friday was pizza friday, not just during Lent. Pizza bagel day, WOO!

I could see getting angry if the religion practices fasting and there's no food available that day. Not having meat available on a Friday is a huge inconvenience? Do you go to Outback Steakhouse and get pissed off at the waiter when a menu item isn't available that day?

I don't agree at all, E, it is not minor to be prohibited from bringing bread in the office for over a week, or to not be given a choice of meat every Friday, it is imposing beliefs and superstitions on people who don't believe in them. There's just no need for it. "I don't believe in that stuff, good for you if you want to do that, but no thanks on your bread/meat fast." This is the opposite of freedom and tolerance, actually. No one is telling these people that they have to eat bread on Passover, or eat meat on Fridays, but them telling everyone else they can't is an imposition.

This also doesn't have anything to do with wishing people a happy/merry whatever, as it's a simple expression of good will and doesn't impinge on one's rights.

I am not anti-religious, per se, if people want to practice whatever and whenever on their own free time, good for them. But I have never heard one good argument in my life why religious customs need to be observed in secular spaces.

An aside:

Last night we went to Chipotle - they were out of both hard taco shells AND cheese. It was pretty fucking hilarious to listen to some of the customer bitching.

Someone brought in pasta last year and got yelled at. I don't need to get yelled at and told I'm not following guidelines.

I have to go out and buy rice and/or salad, it's not something that I eat for lunch daily - and I'll have to go out and buy something for breakfast for the next week as well. Groceries aren't cheap anymore, especially when you're on a budget like me.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but it's just bread. I go whole weeks without eating bread sometimes, and this is just lunch time. My house is always regularly stocked with tuna, eggs and a different assortment of Campbells soups. None of those things contain bread so we're talking egg salad, tuna salad, soup, etc etc.

I'm not saying it isn't a sucky little inconvenience at all, it would annoy me too if it was actually being forced on me, but there seems to be reasonable solutions. If you really wanted to you could pack a lunch in a small cooler or one of those insulated lunch bags and eat outside.

This isn't a case of them running out of pork roll, this is them not making it available on Fridays because of someone's religious beliefs, which you are now being made an unwilling participant in. It's quite different, I think.

How is this even a rhetorical question? People *do* go to restaurants for a specific item, you know. Is the waiter refusing to serve me the item because he threw all of them out because his religion said so? Yeah, I'd be kind of pissed at him. Otherwise, if they aren't intentionally withholding it, how is this even relevant?

The bread *cannot be brought in*, dude. They're not asking her to just stick it in an opaque bag and pretend it's not there.

I think his point was, you would buy rice bowls or salad materials INSTEAD of whatever it is you would normally buy, not in addition to.

It's not the "I can't eat bread" for x-amount of days that's the inconvenience. I have been here three and a half years and have always found solutions. It's "we can't eat this so you can't." If we were owned by Catholics, and they said nobody can eat meat on Fridays, I'd say the same thing considering I'm not Catholic either.

I hate that I have to spend extra money on groceries I don't already have at home - because these are things I don't eat for lunch and/or breakfast on a regular basis. I spend most of my time at work. My husband cooks dinner Monday-Friday. We don't regularly eat breakfast or do lunch at home - so stocking up on those things you mentioned above is something we just don't do. I shouldn't have to do this just because it's someone else's faith and not mine. I will do it out of respect, but I don't have to like it.

Because they're signing my paychecks, I wouldn't object/or take offense to it. Bread, meat, etc. It's just food.

Right. Where am I going to put this insulated cooler? Leave it downstairs in the lobby with the doormen and ask them to watch it for me? Under no circumstances can we have bread products in this office.

What in the fuck? Do you know that soup without ANY meat (even for the broth) sucks? I'm not a fucking vegetarian and I am a lapsed Catholic. If I want pepperoni on my $4 slice of shitty ass pizza, I should be able to get it, no? There is already plain there for the practicing Catholics. Why do I have to suffer?

Pasta isn't leavened - there is no Passover prohibition on it whatsoever.

I consider my lunches cheap as Barilla pasta is always available for at most $1.50/box and my lunch is leftovers added to leftover pasta. Rice is also quite cheap, unless you're buying convenience-type single serving packages or something.

I carry a mini-cooler thing* in to work with a "maxcold ice-pack' in it and don't even use the refrigerators.

This seems to really be an issue for you so I think you should politely inquire what exactly is forbidden so you can work around the restrictions and don't end up resenting your employer all month.

* maybe $10 at Target and measures about 10" * 10" * 8" - ice pack was $2. Everything fits on my desk or at my feet.

I used an admittedly terrible example. Certain restaurants only offer certain things on certain days. How is this different from a school cafeteria? Because you aren't choosing the cafeteria like you would a restaurant? You can choose to bring in lunch that day.

I said cooler or insulated lunch pack (which investing in one of these is cheaper than buying paper bags and more green than throwing them out everyday) so you can leave it in the car and it doesn't get disgusting.

I'm just trying to give you cost effective alternatives, not tell you you're wrong for being annoyed.

sounds like bread nazis...

*runs away*

That's what I thought - so I always avoided pasta.

I've already decided that I'm just going to play it safe and do like I do every year - buy those salads that come in a bag, a couple of cans of tuna and a small container of mayo (since my husband and I don't eat it regularly) and celery. As far as breakfast goes, I'll buy a bag of grapefruits or something and freeze the english muffins I have at home that would've carried me through the month for breakfast. Fingers crossed that there's a sale on those Healthy Choice steamed meals - they usually come with rice and vegetables, no bread products at all.

I work in the city and commute daily via bus. Nowhere to leave it.

I mean really, how are they going to know what is in your lunch bag? Take the bag, go outside, eat, then go back in. Does your building have a break area? I'm not agreeing with your bosses here mind you - I think it's a stupid rule - but considering the economy, do you want to press the issue?

Nope, sorry, no rice for you. Either risk your employment over some bits of rice in a fucking Healthy Choice meal, or adopt some of the practices of orthodox Judiasm at work for a week. Really not an imposition at all.

Just chiming in to say, now and forever, fuck nested quotes. I'm going to ban them from my workplace, and anyone who doesn't like it is fired.