Please, let's at least try to avoid attacks and disrespectful posts this time.

I just want to know what the hell is going on with this country's government. We had eight years of Bush, six of them with GOP majority. My personal view (just mine) is that of those eight years, five...six of them were thumbs up. Economy was healthy, war was suffering to watch, but i still supported it and congrats to the Iraqi people for taking the freedom to vote last week.

Then Bush was numb....Cheney was like Castro (he's there, but really really there?) The GOP went through dumb scandals in a row. Too much money spent and so on. Then we have the Democrats winning in 2006 and while i was not too pleased because of my disliking of Pelosi and Co., i still said that this country needed a shift in power and that the GOP deserved to get their asses kicked. Then comes the 2008 election where i disliked Obama heavily, and despised McCain. Also, the Democrats still maintain power throughout the majority of the federal government. While i have criticized Obama numerous times, i supported on what he wanted to do in terms of uniting this nation more. He deserved me saying that he deserves to be given a chance.

So now it is 2010. The nation is still in economic turmoil. The government has been spending worse than Glen Sather on Redden-like bills. Obama is consistently losing support from the extreme far left for not being who he really is, but is also losing support from moderate democrats, and independents. The healthcare plan has been nothing but bad news and a divisive debate that has the country almost split in two, though majority not favoring it. Democrats have resigned or lost. Now this whole raid within the Democratic party on who is against their agenda will get verbally abused by psycho Rham Emanuel. A big ordeal on the terrorist trial for it to be civil, not military, yet not it will most likely be military. Polls of every sort basically saying "please either drop the healthcare plan altogether, or start it from scratch", yet the federal government covers their ears on the public's opinion. A near terrorist attack on Christmas day.

So........what the hell is going on? This is not what we need. We had the GOP screwing us, they deservedly get kicked out, but the Democrats are pretty much doing the same thing. Spending too much, causing scandals, not caring about the public opinion......and pretty much dividing the nation. This is not Hope. This is not Transparency. This is not Change. It's the same old shit, just with different assholes.

I am not even looking forward to November. This is a scary era for Americans. Our government is screwing us over whether it is Republican or Democrat. So what if the GOP makes a big splash in November? Then what? Just more bickering and more spending? SO what if the GOP takes the White House again, Congress again, Senate, and House, and what not. So what? It will be the same shit anyway.

The Democrats had their best chance to change the course of the ship. They didn't just not do it, yet, but they've worsened it, in my opinion. The democrats deserve to get their butts whooped in November. Maybe that will ease Obama a bit on this leftist agenda. Maybe that will help Obama become the president that we wanted to give a chance to.

This is just unacceptable. Too many old faces. Washington DC is the capital of corruption.

I laughed at European politics, especially Italy's, for years...........but now? How is American politics any better? It's not. It sucks. These politicians have been spending too much since 2002, and it's not going to stop. What is the GOP really going to run on? "Democrats and Obama have overspent and will bankrupt this country." Really? Weren't you starting that too and probably continued have you not been beaten in 2006 and 2008?

I wish our government would be run as a sports team. When you have too many fat cats, not winning, keep losing, and you are losing money because of your team's pathetic performance, what usually happens? A house clean-up. Top to bottom. Can't we have a fire sale? Dump these corrupted bastards.

I am not posting this to solely criticize Obama, or the Dems. OUR government the past ten years has screwed us and it doesn't seem like it will stop. It seems that every week something happens that just makes things worse.

I'm really upset over this. I'm a Republican. Yes, i disliked, really really disliked, the Dems winning in 06 and in 08. But, this is not what i want. I want this country to do well, because i need, we need, this country to do well. Seeing it collapse the way it is gets me upset, and disappointed. If one party fucked up and lost trust from the people, then the other party can't do the exact same thing. We're heading to the point where both parties are a bunch of immature sore losers that want to win whatever they feel like winning no matter what. It's like, Party A wants "this", and Party B wants "that", but the people want something in between. Guess what? The people won't get what is in between because both parties don't care about the majority of the people.

What the hell is going on? What needs to happen to make it stop?

"Obama is consistently losing support from the extreme far left for not being who he really is"

I like this. It's a nice way to say he's an extreme leftist, but if anyone observes he hasn't been acting like an extreme leftist, you can just claim he's hiding it. Also, Obama knows the secret to teleportation, but refuses to share it with America.



Anyway, if you want something to change, you'll need to galvanize a majority of Americans to actually go out and vote for something other than a few specialized interests. You're worried about spending? That makes sense; the problem is that no politician actually wants to be the one to make cuts, and no group wants to take cuts. Military hawks or just plain people who live in states with military-industrial companies don't want defense cut. Old people don't want Medicare/Medicaid cut. Same goes for social security age cutoffs, education spending, etc. Good luck getting a groundswell.

breaking: politicians still suck.

Real change cannot come about as quickly as our instant gratification society demands it. Politicians get where they are on the backs of people with money to spare. And Politicians write legislation that favors that constituency. That will never change.

If you study enough history about the USA, you will understand that we have had far more tumultuous times than right now. Or the prior decade. If it disturbs you sufficiently, you should Do something about it, like writing your legislators, or even consider running for office.

i.e., BE The Change.

The following quote sums up how disenfranchised i have become with politics.


"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t.

You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don’t want that.

You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin' place.

It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy.

The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you . . . they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care.

That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it..."
— George Carlin

WHAT?! The fucker is sitting on the Heisenberg compensator? Damn him!

Heisenberg was Uncertain.

Nihls is Bohring.

Schroedinger was known to be catty at times, too.

So what, none of the ladies wanna tell us what a dog Pavlov was?

I'm curious about that chick Skinner's box myself.

That saved me a lot of typing. This really has become a nation run by Wall Street and big business. Corporations get fucking tax breaks for outsourcing jobs! You're right, it is a club that you and I aren't included in. The sad thing is too many people think they are in that club.

I'm finding it hard to care about politics at all these days. Take the healthcare catastrophe. The Republicans are fucking us little guys over in their ignoble quest to not negotiate in good faith with Obama/Dems ON ANYTHING EVER, and the Democrats have been a mess with their own indecisiveness, betrayals and scandals. There's nothing noble about apathy, but I've gotta tell you, I have been far more comfortable and at ease on a daily basis lately by paying little attention to politics compared with the several hours a day I used spend on the subject.

She shaved it down to a Möbius strip.

I'll bet Fahrenheit thinks that's hot.

i appreciate your response Rocha. I was a little hesitant about posting it, there are very deep convictions by most of the posters on this site and i didn't want to come off as being dismissive to any members opinions.

So who should be running the country?

Sather.

Obama should sell off our F-15s to the Chinese for newer, shinier fighter planes. In a few years, we'll have a much better Air Force.


/HDH

....and that's why everything is the way it is in the first place. 'Tis easier to imagine that one day you'll be rich than to accept the reality that you're poor NOW.

OK, but sometimes a difference in opinion is interpreted as disrespectful.



This is perplexing to me considering that it was Bush’s continuation of deregulation that by and large ushered us into economic doom. Most credible economists now point to deregulation starting with Reagan thru to George W. (including Clinton) as a major culprit.

And as such, the political philosophy of small government, reduced regulation and an end to government oversight, you know: the Right’s political platform has pretty much put the ship on the rocks at the foot of the lighthouse.




For starters, part of Obama’s platform was to put thru a healthcare program but the level of white noise run by the right has been astounding. They have used the word “socialized” roughly an infinite number of times. They have used “government run healthcare” about the same number.

Look, there has been very little intellectual honesty going on here. And I would argue that as a result the country has been turning cynical as they watch the government tearing themselves up about it.

Rahm Emanuel is a bully only because he is not on the right. He is very “un-democrat.” He is a take no prisoners enforcer the likes the country has not seen for a long time. Way back in 2006 the Republicans had a similar personality in the White House. His name was Dick Chaney.

Quick note: drop the polls thing. George Bush had one of the lowest ever poll ratings and still got reelected so don’t put too much credence in a poll. They are politically shallow and rarely reflect overarching strategy.

On Terrorism: if you think that the “underwear bomber” wouldn’t have happened under the Bush watch then I don’t know what to tell ya.

Meanwhile, THIS administrations ratcheted up pressure on Pakistan is now resulting in Al Qaeda’s original propagandist leadership getting hammered and squeezed. In one year no less. So, I resent the notion that anyone makes (not saying you are here) that under Bush we were safe and under Obama we are fucked.

Terrorism will happen. But while Bush was shrewd in his calling for a downscaling of operations (so he could: mission accomplish) in Iraq before he left, Obama’s international policies have as of this time bore more fruit then Bush’s last 4 years.

As for trials??? I cannot and will not accept the notion that America can throw out its entire justice system over terrorism. That is stunning. Israel has faced more Islamic fascism than the US has and they have placed these bums on trial and locked their asses up.

When I see Americans so frightened, or elitist that they would sacrifice one of the cornerstones of America’s greatness… I weep for how weak we have become. I am proud of this country but the last 10-years of suspension of trials and Guantanamo Bay are one of the darkest moments in my life politically and it shames us. I feel that each and everyone of us bare fault for something so beneath us. Nothing about it has been good for America. And to think that we would suspend our self imposed human rights while exporting democracy is hypocritical and a black mark on our flag.

Shame on us. If you are better then your enemy then be better.



We are one year in for goodness sakes crawling out of the largest economic disaster in the entire modern era. We were a pubic hair away from a complete economic collapse.

And they had their best chance to change things? I am not going to argue too much here because a lot of corporate bailouts were done and they all were standing there with their hands open. But these are also the very corporations that utilized deregulation to squeeze everything out of the US economy that they could get. And so after one year, the Right makes a sweeping indictment that this government is a failure and we need to get back to True Conservative Values to save the country by cutting the burdens of taxes and deregulating to get government out of people’s live so the economy can flow. A New Contract with America 16 years after the last one contributed to the economic disaster we are now in.

How about this crazy idea? We keep taxes for business at current levels; take 30% of business’s personnel overhead out of the picture and free them to use that money to grow their businesses? Be all ends all? Not really, but an important first step? Absolutely.

Look at GM for a moment. Long speared in the gut by the unions and paying so much dead money out, that it was breaking their backs. If a public option existed, there would be no healthcare included in the CBA. The workers have their health protected and the company is free to use that money for more profit inducing components of their business.

The right just doesn’t get it at all. Healthcare is just a shell game. Its where you want the ball to land that counts. They just don't want them to land on the right place.

I too have issues with all the spending going on. I question the wisdom of flowing so much money into the economy. We could end up with inflation, and there is no guarantee that these handouts are coming back in. This isn’t Lee Iacocca we are talking about here. But I grow so tired of the right trying to play that a liberal economic strategy has not worked in the past. When Reagan took office after Carter’s ineffective run, he immediately cut taxes and deregulated what happened? And the result as the revisionists have forgotten? A deeper slide into recession. Fast forward a year, Reagan reverses course, and adapts a tremendous spending campaign (most heavily on military) and the economy flourishes.

Yet, they invoke Reagan's name moment to moment. When they said trickle down, they weren't kidding. Trickling all over your face.

Ebase wow. Thank you for that. Just thank you.

Ebase



Sometimes, yes, but calling people names or ridiculing them, or mocking them, is disrespectful.



It is meaningless to go back in history to where something started that was all upside and created a boom of economics, but now has caused a problem. This country's economy was much healthier for over a decade up until the last three years. Deregulation is not a BAD thing. Is it very risky? Yes. Remember, we had huge economic boom with the Dot Com era and the continuation of the tech industry creating a lot of competition. When you deregulate an economy, banking system included, for too long, you do tend to risk an economic downfall. We've had recessions, but came back from those and you can argue that the system of then, which was very deregulated, may have helped as well.

Still, it is of no use to point fingers at politicians, or parties, because our government didn't really care about the deregulated economy from the past 15 years or so. Not like our government was nearly bright in detecting Fanny Mae's issues anyway.

If you regulate too much then you end up limiting the growth of an economy as proven in any socialistic countries, many of them in Europe. Not much growth. I am in favor of deregulation, but the government still has to watch from the sidelines, and it did not. Just because you deregulate, does not mean that the government has no right to take a peak and make sure things are fine. We still have laws that regulate our economy, thus making it a mixed economy, not a socialistic or capitalistic one. The problem is that our government has been way too careless from both parties and did not bother to look. Rather than watching the game from the sidelines, they were watching the cheerleaders.



Well, Obama's original plan was as equal as the ones used in Europe, which are socialized and run by the government. People don't want that. The majority of Americans don't want that and if we're talking about the majority, then i don't think the majority is right wing.



Absolutely. The GOP screwed up so badly and the people took action handing power to the Democratic party. In the end, it's the same garbage, for the most part, just a different party and people are losing faith in this country's government no matter who is running it.



Except Cheney was an elected official, Emmanuel is an appointed staff member trying to run the show and bullying his own members as well. Big difference.



Ehhh, Bush had over 50% in approval rating by 2004, second term re-election. I am not a polls/survey fan, but when it is consistent polling on the same subject for consecutive months then they are fairly reliable.



Does it matter? Nothing happened under his watch since 9/11 so what do we know?



That's fair, but there are some years left still.



Huh? In what sense and how can you even prove that unless you are a top guy in the CIA? Obama has also pissed off the extreme nutty far left for pretty much continuing Bush's terrorism policies.



Please, don't say islamic fascism as the silly conservatives say because it's not even correct to use fascism when terrorists do not even have a form of government. Israel is not the US. They have a different system than the US. And it probably does not cost them millions to try these assholes either, and keep them "healthy" in prisons. If these guys tried to fight our military, then it should be a military trial. But that is not the argument. I disagreed with Obama in pushing for this civil trial and putting it in New York. Ok, fine. I disagreed, so what? But for him to react to the negativity and say "Hmmm....ok, don't get too mad! I'll move it back to a military trial!" is telling. Stick to your guns, Bam Bam. Some democrats disagreed with Bush but respected the way he stuck to his guns. Obama has not stuck to his guns on anything but the GITMO closing which is still unfinished business.



I understand that, and Bush should have put these guys through military trials. But civil trials? These scumbags don't deserve one. Also, our justice system fails within our own criminals. Would i have full faith in it for trying a terrorist? Hmmm.........yeaaaaah but definitely not 100% faith.



We're not crawling out, though. We still are a pubic hair away from complete collapse. Are we better than a year ago? Somewhat, yes in few areas of the economy, but we're far from any kind of promising recovery.



The Democrats have been throwing money at the problems. I understand the first stimulus, both parties agreed to that, but the continuous spending and printing money is not helping this country. The GOP was not the only one to choose deregulation. The whole government, both parties, did not mind that kind of deregulation for years. As i said. They were at the sidelines but did not watch. What has the Democratic party done to increase small businesses to help employ people? You are talking about corporations, but they don't make up most of the American economy. Small businesses make up the US economy. If i am not mistaken, small businesses employed 90% or more of Americans. Small businesses are suffering and closing. We need to fix that. Corporations all depend on investors in the end. The banks also, and i think the banks are more responsible here, but i am not savvy enough on the banking industry to figure out how it could be fixed. Corporations? Yeah. Small businesses? Yes. Banks? No clue.

Still, the unemployment rate is bad. Small businesses are still suffering. I used to go to Boca Dolce which was a bakery/pastry shop in Boca on Glades Road. The other shop is in Boynton, but they expanded because they were doing well. I actually managed to find the company's income in the Boca store and it was estimated at $500k. Speaking with the part owner, who is from Argentina, he said the expenses were too much despite a good customer base, and yes......that included TAXES! I hope he doesn't close the one in Boynton Beach. But see? This is the problem. Small businesses. The democratic party is not helping. If they were, then unemployment would not be so terrible for this nation's standards. We do not want to go back to a careless deregulation system. The GOP wants back in because Obama has spent a ridiculous amount of money and has no improvements to show for, except for more government jobs that now pay more, on average, than the private sector jobs (way to boost that sector's health -NOT-). And yet!!!! He still has to get this chaotic healthcare program passed that will be a massive spending bill.



So in other words, you say GM's demise was largely due to the expenditures of the unions and their healthcare. Right? Okay, yeah that is fair but GM foolishly spoiled their employees for too many years. Their fault. Anyway, so you say that is what caused damage for GM, yes? Ok, let me rephrase a part of your quote:

"""Look at the federal government for a moment. Long speared in the gut by the people and paying so much dead money out, it was breaking their backs."""

If it bankrupted GM, it would also bankrupt the government. What would you rather have? GM bankrupted, or the country bankrupted?

Deregulation has helped (edited) lead this country to become an economic superpower after the Soviet Union crumbled. Yeah, Reagan did reverse CERTAIN parts of his free for all ideas, but it carried on through Bush senior. Through Clinton. And through most of W.

If the government was paying more attention, this chaos would not have happened. They didn't though. They did not care because they were making money as well.

I am not posting anything in this thread to blame one politician, or one party. I am blaming our government as a whole, both parties. And the worst part of it is that the main debate is not even the economy, but whose agenda should be inserted in this healthcare bill.

I reallllly don't want any involvement in this thread. But ...



But he couldn't. Despite his best efforts, the military defense team assigned to defending these guys sued him in federal court and won in a vote at the Supreme Court, who declared the tribunals as assembled to be against the law. Following this, the government passed the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which cleared up the loopholes that made the tribunals illegal. So far three people have been tried under the MCA. One was a plea bargain that was negotiated well before the MCA was even passed; the other two cases were dismissed for lack of jurisdiction. While in no way would I defend George Bush for protecting our constitutional principles, he couldn't do something that was in fact illegal.



Civilian trials. And ...



The civilian trial system is the one we used for every violent domestic criminal we have, be they murderer, rapist, child molester, or murdering rapist child molester. The guy out in California that raped and killed a teenage girl gets a civilian trial. How do you distinguish this act from that of a terrorist? Because you seem to indicate that even an unsuccessful terrorist is far more dangerous than the everyday monsters we already have living in the country.

Seeing as how we see our court system allow sex offenders, of multiple times, to be out on the streets, i think it would only be common logic to get serious in such a case of rape. I mean, did we really need O'Reilly to campaign Jessica's Law?

Domestic every day crimes are brutal and people out there are dangerous. However, to measure a rapist + murderer to someone that wants to re-create a 9/11 event is too large to compare. Thanks for clarifying the military tribunals story.

I still think Bush should have done something more efficient rather than just living them there. Not that it was at the top of my list of worries....but still. Anyway, i am still not in favor of a civil trial. They just don't deserve our taxpayers' money to be given a voice. Just my personal opinion, though.

It's ok that you got involved. I know we disagree a lot but whenever you see something to correct, especially regarding law, then please.....do correct.

Tbh, it'd solve many of our country's problems if we said "to hell with human rights, these scumbags forfeited theirs by committing the crimes" and instated a random lottery. Three times per week, they randomly draw the prisoners' numbers and the "winners" get to fight each other to the death in a televised PPV event, sponsored by the government. I bet there'd be many people who'd tune in to see the lowest dregs of society kill each other off. Everybody wins here-- prison overcrowding is reduced, going to prison for any amount of time actually becomes a deterrent for crime, there are less evil people in the world just waiting to be released back into society, and the government makes a lot of money from the people who watch these events. Yeah, it may be science fiction and it may be "cruel and unusual punishment," but as I said, rapists and murders should have their "human rights" considered null and void. There is the risk of innocent people dying, but that argument is somewhat blown out-of-proportion by anti death-penalty advocates. I'll probably get some facepalms and shit for this post, but oh well.

A less radical solution to the prison problems is to just have a random execution lottery. Simply, if your number comes up, you are executed by the end of the day. No more prison overpopulation, no more endless circuits of appeals postponing capital sentences for decades, still the same amount of deterrent as the first idea. Oh, and bring back hard labor. Instead consuming tax dollars to pay people to do things like repaving our roads, have prisoners do it for free.

I mean... c'mon... you can't... really?

Seems like a modest proposal to me.

Jon Stewart had a similar debate on one of his shows recently concerning terrorist trials and torture.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/...0-marc-thiessen

And the last two clips on this link is the interview that was posted on the web...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/10/m...t_n_493218.html

and shit.



Let's ignore for a moment the large body of research that points to a lack of deterrent effect (I'll try to link back to some of these tonight when I get home from work) - do you have any idea how many people we'd have to kill under your plan to achieve "no more prison overpopulation?"



Instead of consuming tax dollars to pay people to do things like repaving our roads, use them to pay corrections officers to keep chain gangs under guard while they do things like repaving our roads.

Am I giving KoD too much credit in thinking his post was satire?

Bingo. It's just a modest proposal

And yes, it was satire. Guess I'll refrain from being sarcastic/satirical in the future. I suck at it.

I highly recommend the [satire] [/satire] html markings.

No, it was good! Would you mind tossing me a ladder?

I don't agree with it at all that this nation is run by corporations. Certainly they manipulate a lot, but the economy's core is small business. Without that, this nation is worth less than the Fiji Islands.

If Sed got tricked like that, then we may as well find ourselves tricked when the Rangers bring home the Cup.

Hey man Fiji's got some pretty damn nice resorts. I'd say they are worth more than you think!

Your quite naive if you really think for a minute that Corporations do not run this country. Get out of the house once in a while.

Pffft....whatever tickles your pickle....Tim, is it?

Corporations have dictated domestic and foreign policy (see Haliburton/Blackwater/Lockheed Martin/Northrup Grumman etc etc etc) for decades, and their grip gets stronger each year - because we let them - because they've convinced the average Fox viewer that this is how America is supposed to run. Better go back and check what our founding fathers felt about this. A government by the people and for the people? No more, my friends.

The only way out of this that I can see is to stop voting for the big 2 parties. Do not call it a Grass Roots Movement because the Fox robots will label that as hippie and socialist, when it isn't. There is nothing more American than voting for any candidate you choose to vote for. And it needs to start at the local level and gain momentum from there. These little guys need to be voted in, their constituents need to see results that are far different from anything produced by Dems or Republicans in recent years, and then you will start getting these 3rd party votes at the higher levels. Sure, there are Dems and Republicans that don't agree with the way the nation is being run, but their parties won't let them do shit about it. Why? Because their friends, and friends of friends of friends are expecting their big fuck the US general population in the ass while we laugh paychecks, and they will get it. Thanks to your complacency and big business.

I can't imagine how you'd come to that conclusion. Maybe you think our economy's core should be small business, and I'd kind of agree. But it certainly isn't now. Our economy is heavily tied into Wall St., then from there the biggest corporations, then way way down the line are what vestiges of small business remain.

My thought is that without small businesses, corporations would be dead for the most part. If small businesses were not around, then this country wouldn't survive.

As i said, though, corporations manipulate a lot of Wall Street and government. But do they run the country? I would not go to that extreme. I mean, sure in certain sectors and markets/industries they do, such as oil, but the big money flow is in small businesses.

And besides, what would we do about corporations? Eliminate them? Have them controlled by government? In other words, take away the pursuit of prosperity from Americans that start small businesses that end up as corporations.

The days of small businesses flourishing into large corporations are mostly over, though. A small business may last for a while, but once it starts to blossom, some big corporation which does basically the same thing will swoop in and either try to buy it out from under its owners or put up a chain-store near it to force it to close.

Removing corporate personhood would be a good start methinks.

This I approve of. Corporations are not people and should not be treated as having all of the rights as one.

you are a communist maroon...

I wouldn't say it is over. It's a cyclical matter. Reason why you are not seeing it as much is because of the technology boom, which is innovative, but extremely expensive. So, it is hard to start up a tech business and go far with it when there are giants around you.

Nonetheless, small business runs this country's economy because people need to buy in order to have corporations make money, and since small businesses provide a ton of employment, it feeds this circulation of money within our economy. The economy is all about cycles and circulations.....it's not easy.

wow 101, I don't usually agree with a lot of what you say, but i've come to learn that you're a pretty intelligent and well schooled guy. I find it very surprising to think that you would really still believe that this country looks the way it did in the 50's. Have you driven cross country? There's a lot of mom and pop business but it's like survival of the fittest, they are the exception to all the small business owners who were put out of business by the stripmalling of america. There's nothing but walmarts and targets and fucking arby's. It's sad. Seriously.. it is very sad. And if you think people buying the name "subway" and opening up urban outfitters to put money back in the pocket of the neighborhood, you are wrong. It pays for the rental of identity and then the rest of the money goes to the corporate ownership to then do things like lobby for zoning laws in order to throw up parking lots and steak chains who just happen to be subsidiaries; before you know it everywhere you park everywhere you buy a hotdog you a dumping money back into the pockets of a CEO who cares nothing for anyone but the bottom line and shareholder value. It's like a mining town owned by a company and being a worker paid with credit to the general store. The money never leaves the company. Except this is on a global scale... I have an Amazon credit card. I don't even have to bother seeing my money before i funnel it directly into someone's empire...

America has changed and it has changed a lot. The amount of money that flows through the hands of normal people holding a business is on the scale of just hundreds of millions of dollars, if that much. millions is nothing compared to the kind of money that corporations bring in total as an influencial group. Mom and pop don't get to fuck with what kind of potatoes your country gets to grow because they control the international distribution and production of french fries. We don't change global trading patterns and overseas taxing because of our morning coffee and donut habits, corporations do. To think that the banking industry is anything less than the ultimate puppetmaster for why corporate entities have become so powerful is to be blind. It's just one hand reaching into one pocket to pay the other hand. they're just swapping money around for people who either own the giant company or own the giant bank and shell money around to avoid taxes for their friends who just so happen to be other bankers and CEO's themselves. You can't possibly imagine how insignificant these people think you and i are. They're totally jaded by having money thrown around them. to think anything means anything to them is insane. The shit madoff

I know this is a ramble but i just think people have lost perspective on the amount of money that is being freely passed between the super-rich classes and the rest of us. You guys have probably seen this 1 pixel= 1 million dollars thing but here's a good example of what i'm talking about. That giant box is at the bottom of the page.. that's money we gave away for free because the bankers told us we had to.. that's it.. thats all they had to say.

The normal small business that you're thinking of will never in a bazillion years come close to the earning potential for one year that some of these major corporate versions will make.

I think if your wondering why this country is not doing the things you believe it should for it's people, or no longer living up to that ideals you think we should be held to, you need to seriously take a moment to consider how much of this country has quietly been taken over by corporations while billions of dollars have gone into convincing people that it's okay with advertising full of celebrities and tits that tell you giant factory farm meat pumped with chemicals and hifructose is your best bet for a healthy happy life. All this shit has been happening behind your back dude. And when you talk about your dad being a doctor and being fucked by insurance companies and malpractice suites. You don't realize that that shit is just another side to all this other corporate bullshit. It would be a fucking conspiracy if people's general state of being wasn't ignorance and greed. But it is, so you get a lot of people turning to look the other way while giant companies hold down the "middleclass" to make sure they can preserve record profits and record profits are never enough. All this while we fight with each other to vote for which of the hands we want to be punching us in the face daily for the next 4 years.

I really enjoyed reading that and yeah......my train of thought is probably flawed, but i believe in it. I look at GDP and there is no question that small businesses are a large part of it. My estimation would be between 40% and 50% of GDP. Now i am not so sure with the current economy. It's a crazy up and down chart that is hard to guesstimate projections. Hence why whatever investments anyone has, put them all in CDs for the time being. More consistent.

I really don't know what else to say though. I completely understand where you guys are coming from with the idea that corporations are ruling, and like i said....they manipulate a lot. They have power, no doubt. But, would i put it in the context where they control this country? No. Small businesses come and go and that is survival of the fittest, the way it should be. I feel terrible that Blockbuster is going to file for Ch.11. But good God........they blew it.

Ten....fifteen years ago you could have asked any economist on a possible AT&T failure and they would have looked at you like a weirdo. AT&T DIED! It is back now, but it died because they blew it.

It is survival of the fittest in this country and i fully support that. Some people have what it takes to innovate their business. Look at Wal-Mart.....genius. Others don't have it. This is why this country is great. It's a battle of wits and trying to win, and while you are in that process of trying to win.....you actually help this country.

So, that is why i still have such a strong faith in small businesses. The corporations are the 20 cavalry, but the small businesses are the 1,000 foot soldiers, as i like to say it.

Anyway, your post was a pleasure to read as i love talking about this stuff and i appreciated your first phrase too it feels rewarding to get a compliment like that having put a lot of years into studying.

I spits the coffee all over the screen.

So when Walmart uses exploitation as the core competency and then uses that to gain competitive advantages, we should call that genius? We aren't talking about Joe buying out Bob because Bob is retiring here. We are talking about a big-box retailer spreading its tentacles into every facet of life in the name of consolidation of business profits. Yeh investor!!

One man's genius is another man's rape of the world. I would invite you to join me in Asia so you can examine the genius of Walmart firsthand. There supply side is hideous, disgusting, and rapidly causing us as the 1st world to inadvertently dig the grave for those in the third world, push them into it, and bury them alive. All in the name of genius.

I am not against making money, but there is nothing beautiful about squeezing your supply side into complete subservience and then turning to "inventing" (another politically correct term for utterly crushing) a demand side which really already existed or is a nice way of saying: taking over and consolidating banking, food shopping, and everything else using a financially intimidating stance to force out any and all competition in ALL markets.

Soon, your University will close and you can attend Wal-Mart U. But don't worry, because they would never cut corners on your education. After all, we are all in the name of low prices.

I wish I was just waxing hyperbole when describing the "genius" plan. Walmart isn't genius. It is a monolithic powerhouse not run by an entity but a nameless faceless investor. When your profit margins are more then the GDP of several first world countries they maybe the first company eventually that might use their genius to "buy" a country. Walmart Land.

It is great to be a lion right up to the day that you killed off the very last zebra.

I spits the coffee all over the screen.

So when Walmart uses exploitation as the core competency and then uses that to gain competitive advantages, we should call that genius? We aren't talking about Joe buying out Bob because Bob is retiring here. We are talking about a big-box retailer spreading its tentacles into every facet of life in the name of consolidation of business profits. Yeh investor!!

One man's genius is another man's rape of the world. I would invite you to join me in Asia so you can examine the genius of Walmart firsthand. There supply side is hideous, disgusting, and rapidly causing us as the 1st world to inadvertently dig the grave for those in the third world, push them into it, and bury them alive. All in the name of genius.

I am not against making money, but there is nothing beautiful about squeezing your supply side into complete subservience and then turning to "inventing" (another politically correct term for utterly crushing) a demand side which really already existed or is a nice way of saying: taking over and consolidating banking, food shopping, and everything else using a financially intimidating stance to force out any and all competition in ALL markets.

Soon, your University will close and you can attend Wal-Mart U. But don't worry, because they would never cut corners on your education. After all, we are all in the name of low prices.

I wish I was just waxing hyperbole when describing the "genius" plan. Walmart isn't genius. It is a monolithic powerhouse not run by an entity but a nameless faceless investor. When your profit margins are more then the GDP of several first world countries they maybe the first company eventually that might use their genius to "buy" a country. Walmart Land.

It is great to be a lion right up to the day that you killed off the very last zebra.

Noooooooooooooooo, not that! I meant as look at how Wal Mart began. It was Walton the genius. How Wal Mart has worked cheaply the past decade is a shame, but i love how Sam started it. From small to giant. That was the genius part!